Fear of empty nest possible explanation for murder/suicide

Parent Cafe
141

<p>Regarding men killing their children- I think that uncontrollable rage, abusive behavior, revenge killing of kids, and most of the other examples you have given here are indicative of some form of mental illness. They wouldn’t all have the same diagnosis, of course, nor would the ability of the person to seek help/alternatives all be diminished to the same degree. </p>

<p>I do have compassion for anyone suffering from a mental illness. But I also don’t think every mentally ill criminal needs to be found not guilty by reason of insanity. The legal definition of insanity is very different than the medical diagnosis of mental illness.</p>

142

<p>

</p>

<p>nsm–what is this belief based on? Unfounded beliefs support sexism, racism-- all the ism’s.</p>

<p>At present in contested custody battles, the father and mother each “prevail” about half the time. When all the facts are presented, mom as the only (or the necessarily superior) nurturer is de-bunked.</p>

<p>[More</a> Fathers Awarded Primary Child Custody Following Divorce](<a href=“http://knowledgebase.findlaw.com/kb/2010/Feb/59220.html]More”>http://knowledgebase.findlaw.com/kb/2010/Feb/59220.html)</p>

<p>In Peters case, we have some reports that the mother and daughter were not close after the father’s death. Also, we have no idea whether the lack of insurance on the dad was due to Peters’ failure to take any out (spouses have insurable interests in the life of the other spouse), her missing payments or whether it was a couple decision. Seems everyone assumes that dad was remiss, but Peters had a job along with being the mayor. We know of nothing that kept her from getting the insurance.</p>

<p>I asked several women about who handles the insurance on the husband. To a one, they said they did to make sure it was in place and always paid. One said that it always works best when the one with the most to loose handles the matter.</p>

<p>If Jayne Peters messed this up, it would provide guilt as a motivating factor rather than illness.</p>

143

<p>It is quite possible that the insurance money was used for the cancer treatments, some of which were experimental. Many life insurance policies allow early cash out for such purposes.</p>

144

<p>^^^I view life insurance as the joint responsibility of both parents. When we found out we were expecting our first child, we both took out life insurance policies and drew up a will. The policy on my husband is much larger as he has a far greater earning capacity than I, but we still purchased a policy on my life which would have covered funeral expenses, child care, and education costs.</p>

<p>As we are a team, we took on this responsibility as a team. As Dad07 points out, it should not all be laid at the feet of the father. As it turns out, it was a very good thing we purchased significant life insurance policies. 3 years after my husband’s cancer diagnosis, I shudder to think about trying to find anyone to cover him now and even if we could, the premiums would be exorbitant.</p>

145

<p>

</p>

<p>An article I read yesterday said that Jayne admitted to friends that there was no insurance. One never knows how accurate news articles are, of course. My husband and I view life insurance and health insurance as two separate “musts.” My husband is self employed, so I understand how expensive that gets. But insurance comes before having a big house in our priorities-if both health and life insurance is too expensive, we buy less house.</p>

146

<p>“nsm–what is this belief based on? Unfounded beliefs support sexism, racism-- all the ism’s.”</p>

<p>It’s based on my memory of cases in which parents have killed their children. You even can Google and find a pdf of an Indiana case in which a man planned the revenge killing of his son even before the child was conceived. (I have to say that to do such a thing, I think the man must have some kind of severe personality disorder). </p>

<p>If you have links to research about the mental health, etc. of parents who have killed their kids, please provide.</p>

<p>I agree with you that some men who kill their kids are mentally ill just as is the case of some women who kill their kids. Similarly, men and women have killed their children out of revenge and anger.</p>

<p>I suspect, however, that it’s much harder to kill for revenge a child that one has been the primary caretaker of, something that’s more likely for women to be than for men.</p>

147

<p>I view these types of financial matters as joint responsibilities as well. But, not every family is set up that way. And many families think they’ll save on the premiums until later in life and then wham something hits before you get the policy and therefore cannot get it. </p>

<p>I think financial matters certainly play a role in this case, but I think the depression over the husband’s death is also a huge factor. It is conceivable that even if she had been left with money, her thoughts, out of serious depression and grief, would still have been distorted enough to “mercy kill” her daughter and then herself.</p>

148

<p>This is an interesting article on dads who kill their families. And as some of us are speculating in the murder-suicide that’s the subject of this thread, in some cases the fathers view themselves as doing mercy killings.</p>

<p>"James Harrison was in his 30s, a husband and father described by some as caring and by others as controlling.</p>

<p>Earlier this month, his wife decided to leave the Graham man. After failing one night to get her to stay, he grabbed a rifle and shot each of their five children several times, killing them. Then he shot himself.</p>

<p>Among the many questions raised after the killings was: How could any father do such a thing — and why?</p>

<p>In general, experts say men who do this tend to be in their mid-30s to middle-aged, and to have been depressed or frustrated for a long time, or to suffer from mental illness, which may have gone undiagnosed.</p>

<p>They tend to fall into one of two categories: angry at their partners and seeking revenge, or hopeless and despondent and believing their family is better off dead.</p>

<p>Both types are usually socially isolated, with little or no support system. And they may feel that as head of the family, they have control over the lives of members…</p>

<p>Typically, a loss of some kind — such as a job or a wife — triggers the violence.</p>

<p>But there are disagreements among experts and studies are few, in part because killing one’s family — known as familicide — is so rare.</p>

<p>Some say revenge is the main motivator; others see perceived altruism as more of a driving factor.</p>

<p>And while a history of domestic violence is a factor in some cases, it isn’t in others."</p>

<p>[Local</a> News | Experts have profile of fathers who kill family | Seattle Times Newspaper](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009086087_familicide20m0.html]Local”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009086087_familicide20m0.html)</p>

149

<p>

</p>

<p>Good idea but the paper said that the mom said there was no insurance but she didn’t want to tell her D because she didn’t want her to think less than her dad. No D would think less of her dad for using the money for treatment.</p>

150

<p>I don’t know about the life insurance of course- just offering a possibility. I just don’t think that the financial situation in and of itself is the sole reason for her behavior.</p>

151

<p>

</p>

<p>missypie–that story came from Peters’ account to people she talked to. We have no way of knowing if she was laying the lack of insurance off on the deceased and covering up the lack of insurance with her daughter. Pure ego defense for Peters with the people and shame and embarrassment with the daughter.</p>

<p>If you were 19 and one parent came in and said “we’re tapped out because deceased mom or dad failed to buy insurance” would you have bought that when the surviving parent was a college educated, employed individual who also was the local mayor? I wouldnt. </p>

<p>I’d have been p.o.'d at both of them to the extent that I was mad at either. In fact, I’d think it was pretty “low” for the survivor to be laying it off on the dead one.</p>

<p>As several posters have said, marriage is a team sport.</p>

152

<p>

</p>

<p>Just wanted to say that I had to look her up. I’ve learned something today: Call me uninformed, but I had no idea that there were Anglican nuns.</p>

<p>With that said, 07Dad, you are correct that if the statement came from Peters, folks should be skeptical.</p>

153

<p>“missypie–that story came from Peters’ account to people she talked to. We have no way of knowing if she was laying the lack of insurance off on the deceased and covering up the lack of insurance with her daughter. Pure ego defense for Peters with the people and shame and embarrassment with the daughter.”</p>

<p>Maybe he’d had insurance, but he and his wife used the insurance money for cancer treatments, including some wacko cancer treatments. She may not have wanted to share with her friends all of the details of their finances.</p>

<p>Her saying he lacked insurance doesn’t mean that he never had life insurance.</p>

<p>Perhaps, too, he had a prior medical condition that made it expensive or next to impossible for him to have gotten life insurance coverage.</p>

154

<p>What we have no idea of is their financial situation before the husband’s death. They could have been living beyond their means then (just because you are a VP for a “business information solutions” company doesn’t mean you’re well off.) Life insurance could have been something they just never got around to buying. I knew a lawyer who died at the age of 67 without a will. Some people are just not careful in their personal business.</p>

155

<p>If he was a VP of a business solutions firm (not self-employed) he probably would have had the opportunity to purchase life insurance at a very low cost- at least for himself. If he were self-employed, different story.</p>

156

<p>Within the first 12 months of my S’s birth I bought a single premium life insurance policy in the projected amount of 4 years of college tuition when he reached 19. I listed him as the beneficiary. Hardly cost anything because I was in my 30s.</p>

<p>It was “college” if I died young. I had made sure to tell the attorney I had do my will all about the policy and did not mention it to mom. Unfortunately, as an attorney I had already seen situations where the insurance on a deceased spouse got frittered away by the survivor eventhough she had young kids. I had seen parents loot their kid’s trusts and Uniform Gift to Minor’s accounts. My will provided for a corporate trustee.</p>

<p>We don’t even know if Peters was telling the truth about there being no life insurance. She could have blown it that first year after the Husband’s death. THAT could have been why she not only felt the need to kill herself, but also her daughter. If daughter was aware from conversations with dad before he died that there was money for college and MOM spent it, a surviving daughter would have known the truth about dear old mom.</p>

<p>The Coppell police are not closing this case yet. All this may come out. It will be interesting to find out if mom had any insurance on her life.</p>

157

<p>[Coppell</a> Murder-Suicide: Watching the Tough-on-Crime Go Soft on One of Their Own - Dallas News - Unfair Park](<a href=“http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2010/07/when_the_tough_on_crime_go_sof.php]Coppell”>http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2010/07/when_the_tough_on_crime_go_sof.php)</p>

158

<p>The reporter is right on the mark about the upper middle class spin this case has taken. We are tut, tut-ing over life insurance when 15% of the US population have no health insurance and another 35% have insufficient health insurance for a major problem. Where is the kid killing in those families “from mental illness” when the bread winner gets really, really ill or injured off the job, much less dies without life insurance?</p>

<p>I don’t have an estimate for how many people have no life insurance, but I bet it is very substantial.</p>

<p>UPdate:

</p>

159

<p>^^^^The comments are almost as interesting as the article.</p>

160

<p>Yeah 07Dad, put Mom and D in a trailer park or Section 8 housing and see where the story takes us.</p>

<p>Last fall when an area dad ran his wife down in a Walmart parking lot and then shot himself, I heard the news story and pretty much ignored it, picturing this happening somewhere in the ‘hood. It was an eye opening experience for me to learn that their kids went to my kids’ school and that their house looks almost exactly like my house.</p>