@privatebanker you gave me a great laugh when you said you “wished we could get back to hating the evil rich”, last night ?
Hah. I was only half kidding 
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Card-Fang…I should have used the word unhooked rather than normal, however context of post was clearly about hooks and no other intentions were meant.
NoCreat…I was not talking about your child. Just pointing out how difficult it is for unhooked students to get in and how frustrating it can be for wealthy parents to buy a spot for their child.
There are thousands of colleges in the US. Competitive admission is no excuse for cheating, lying, and defrauding.
Does anyone think that students are withdrawing their application to the institutions in the news?
@privatebanker Harvard and every other private institution can set their goals any way they choose. It would be helpful if they made these things a bit more clear so that candidates could make a more realistic assessment of their chances. In the mostly white, suburban neighborhood where I live, you hear it all the time…“Johny will definately get into Harvard, he has 1580 SAT and straight A’s and look how many advanced classes he has taken…In fact Johny had to take math at the local community college because his high school wasn’t challenging enough…can you imagine!”
They really have no idea that there are 20 or more Johhnys for every spot at Harvard. The inevitable rejection is a huge disappointment. It feels like a betrayal because people are left asking…if "perfect’ Isn’t good enough, what could possibly be good enough?
I used to think that way. I was stunned when I first started reading the results threads. I assumed most of the kids had to be lying… If people knew how few spots there really are for unhooked kids like Johny, they would at least be prepared and might make some better decisions when it comes to applications.
Someone always has to bring everything back to “them” taking "my’ spot. This cheating scandal is about just that, cheating. It’s about people who decided they didn’t need to play by the agreed upon rules, and creating their own, new process. If they had donated a building, or endowed a chair, no one would care, because we all know that the super wealthy make higher ed possible for many who could not otherwise afford it.
Both my parents were college educated, but if not for a merit scholarship, specifically for women in engineering, I would not have been able to attend a top engineering school. My husband and I both have masters degrees, but if not for merit scholarships, my one DD wouldn’t have graduated debt free, my second DD wouldn’t have been able to attend her dream school, and my HS senior DD wouldn’t have options. Development donors, (and their admits) have funded my entire family’s education, for generations.
But these were not development admits. These were fake SAT score (which is another issue, since scores are relative), fake athlete profile, coach and AAD pocketing money admits. These were stolen scores, stolen opportunity and stolen acceptance admits. These families disregarded the process, that, even with its flaws, benefits students from diverse backgrounds and SES. This is the point of the investigation…they committed a crime. Whatever you think of the legacy, or development admit programs, extra time, athletic recruiting, 1st gen, Low SES or URM, is irrelevant to this probe. This is about people stealing other peoples opportunity, through bribery, lies and manipulation. This isn’t about another disadvantaged group, undeservedly, taking your spot. It’s about a group of super advantaged people believing they deserve a spot before all of us.
@IWannaHelp, yep, another NU grad on CC uncovered USC’s blatant engineering ranking cheati–ahem, gaming. Blatant engineering ranking gaming a decade ago: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-southern-california/727030-ranking-rigging-at-usc.html
@2023elite- maybe only the cheaters will withdraw applications. The others will have an infinitesimally better chance of admission if they stick around for the RD results.
As an aside. Will have limited internet access for a few days. Wonder what page this thread will be up to when I check in?
You are spot on. You described my d , Val at the number one public school in our state. An exam school of sorts. and a sports cpt etc . Not kidding. She was crushed and so were we, for her.
Her grandfather is a grad and a professor. There is a endowed scholarship there set up so any one getting in goes for free. (My wife’s family goes way back at H). That would have been nice. But c’est la vie.
But in the end we have to be happy for the kids who go there. Or anywhere. They are neighbors and fellow citizens. Wish them well.
Enjoy the school you attend. And see you in med school.
Being mad, and raging at the machine isn’t super productive. I admit, I was that way at first. Just mad. We were robbed, it seemed.
But none of these students are either Harvard or the coal mines. Perspective has been very helpful for us. .
As an FYI. D just return from a service trip to coal country in Kentucky. Every kid that went came back with a real new view of the world.
The school she attends now turns out to be exactly where she should be, having found her gang in second semester.
I am guessing if they have sought good legal advice they would pull their applications immediately to avoid further recourse.
Has there been any new developments on this today? I didn’t see anything new in the news.
@17yeargap phenomenal post
@privatebanker maybe it’s just my next of the woods…but the black students I know that got into Harvard, Columbia, Yale, and Duke were high achieving, high scores students from great families and 3 of the best ongoing schools in the country…
Of course they have terrific accomplishments. That was my point and poorly worded. It’s not always easy to perfectly convey a thought in a post.
I was thinking in terms of the published data in the lawsuit. Stats were lower. But as I said super stars. And you are correct, who knows what the scores are for any kid.
But there seems to be post after post that thought that someone stole their kids spot. Athletes urm first gen etc
I was just saying it’s not the truth and we should be supportive of the students. Even if it is the case.
But I don’t know anyone’s stat line or ecs. It’s was only off my interpretation of the data in that case.
But I edited the post to eliminate any misunderstanding.
I guess the bottom line is … schools can do what they need to build the class they want. However, cheaters will have to deal with all of us given social media. Finally, I see a positive from social media, the losers can’t hide.
Not sure why people say things like “If people knew how few spots there really are for unhooked kids.” There are few spots of all kids. Even when analysis shows that kids with certain characteristics have an improved chance, those chances are improved by very small percentages. I remember a friend who was a Stanford alum showing me an article from their alumni magazine talking about legacy admissions a few years ago. The point of the article was basically “don’t be thinking your kid is getting in here just because you came.” If I remember correctly the overall admissions rate was 5.5% and the legacy admissions rate was 5.7%. There are plenty of athletes, legacies and URMs getting rejected - not just “unhooked” kids.
@17yeargap is right. These parents weren’t just creating hooks, they were directly buying spots from coaches and fabricating test scores. If they thought a hook was such a sure thing, they wouldn’t have bothered with everything else.
@privatebanker I hear you. Your numerous posts speak for themselves. I know you were just speaking your truth. I wasn’t offended by anything in your post.
@privatebanker Thank you for pointing that out. It needs to be said repeatedly that every POC is not some kid that needs a chance from the “wrong side of the tracks”.
Let me also state that being a legacy POC from those schools doesn’t guarantee anything either. I have friends who graduated from Yale, Cornell and Stanford all with high achieving kids. None of their kids got in.