These parents set their teenage children up for a big public fall. There should be additional criminal charges for it.
there’s nothing wrong with private schools. My d attended a magnet school of choice herself. But I am trying to set aside what I think I know and try to see a reason. Which I get to at the bottom. But I did want to think this through with all of you smart people to help e see what I am missing. And don’t hold me to the math. I am doing it as I type and want to be close enough directionally.
There’s always a data dad or math mom who nail me on be percentages! Please
bear with me on this.
And though it doesn’t personally effect me or my family, it seems off. So there’s no skin in the game on the issue for me.
And like they say “just follow the money” - lets “follow the math”.
For the record , private schools includes
kids from all SES backgrounds. That’s not the issue really at hand.
It’s just the percentages, statistically don’t seem to make sense.
Take the top 30 percent of all public schools as an example. The cream of the public school crop. Exams schools. Schools of choice, public magnets etc.
This would number around 10500 schools. The top three students in each school (remember this is the cream of the crop. The best in the USA) would be 31500 Val’s sals and #3s. Top ten from each of these schools nearly matches the entire population of private school grads. The total.
You would not think in random distribution, where you assume the top ten students at the top 30 percent of schools, with scores and grades equally strong as the top ten students coming out of a private schools, would show such a massive statistical disadvantage for the public schools.
Three to one sure, five to one ok, 20 to one come on now. And it’s worse than that for being placed at H and Y.
Something else Is happening. Perhaps it’s the strongest kids receiving admit preferences — income, first gen and urm are coming from the private schools environment .
And the top 30 percent of public schools are a much wealthier group of towns and more Caucasian.
That’s all I can think of.
And if that’s what it is. I’m ok with it.
@scholarme says:
“That way rejected students realize it was partly luck, and admitted students won’t feel that they are necessarily “better” than other kids and will maybe give them some humility.”
Please listen to yourself. This is exactly the sentiment that led to this cheating scandal, IMO. Institutions of higher learning have zero responsibility to your feeling, wants, and expectations. Why would your raising your children include their self worth being wrap up in what school accepted them? You really want Universities to change their polices to protect your children from disappointment and reality? Even though there are more qualified applicants than there are spots in each class, the final decision may not be as arbitrary as you want to believe and a lottery system may not be suitable. People, this is really the undertone of a lot of this thread. This mother is clearly not in the minority of people who feel this way. I don’t understand what is going on culturally in this country, but THIS is the problem. Not the Universities. These Universities have been this selective and non inclusive for over a century. They are private, and motivated by their mission statement. Not our desires and wants.
@calmom In Showbiz, USC is the Big Name, with an inordinate number of famous actors, directors, producers, etc, having gone there. Since so many of the people involved are from Southern California, it stands to reason that USC would be an extremely attractive college, much more so than its academic ranking would suggest.
I’ve never been one to place a lot of stock in the US News rankings, and I don’t mean to be dismissive of any college. It’s just that on CC so many are obsessed with “top 20” or “top 10” that it’s hard for me to understand the motivation for spending 6 or 7 figure to bribe and cheat in order to get a kid into one of those schools. It just doesn’t translate into the same bragging rights in the end.
@privatebanker One thing which you are leaving out of your analysis is “international” students. I put this in quotes because the vast majority are from China. Schools have become more and more beholden to the international student 1) they dont cause a great deal of trouble 2) they rarely ask for finaid. Many pay well in advance directly with cash before the semester starts This is a relatively new phenomenon, starting about the same time the US financial crisis opened the door to many “international” students coming in
…
"Because basically no women row prior to college, womens crew is almost entirely a walk on sport. Zero experience required to join the squad and see how you do. Very little recruiting. "
@termperatina
You are spot on! Crew and women’s crew in particular is highly competitive. Recruited athletes would have rowed in HS. It’s as competitive inthe west coast as it is on the east coast. No way someone is recruited to be a “walk on”. In the USC case those students were in on the fraud.
and yes i agree, when i applied to college in 1979 schools like USC were “very” competitive. Barrons was the only ranking system and a school was either very , highly or most competitive. Believe it or not villanova was also very, Penn and cornell were Highly, unlike their status today in the top 15
@privatebanker I think some of what comes into play is that the top Prep day and boarding schools have been doing business with the Ivies from the beginning of the Ivies inception. These students were groomed for entry into these Universities. They know how these students were educated, and trust the curriculum and classroom environment. It starts with the private prep pre schools actually.
This applies only if confined to a category. Alternatively, if you were to look at all colleges by standardized scoring profiles, USC would land at about 40th to 45th in the country.
You are 100 percent correct. What’s the USC bashing all about. And as I keep trying to say is there isn’t a USC to bash. Only the human beings that comprise the community. It’s weak stuff people.
And usc,represented by its people, are outstanding. And I know they are in the top 5 schools for producing grads who become billionaires. So not everyone is an entitled doofus. Some sharp kids there.
How come we don’t see the same type of vitriol towards Yale, UCLA, Stanford Heaven Forbid. Or Georgetown or wake.
I would say we shouldn’t bash any of these schools for this unless more damning info comes out.
The bad actors involved are to blame. Some of the kids by not all either. A little compassion goes a long way people.
MODERATOR’S NOTE: A reminder that debates are not permitted.
Historically, the Ivies have always had a strong relationship with a small number of private prep schools perceived as “feeders”. And this is the route that the dominant, elite leadership class has followed – the Kennedy’s, the Bush family, etc. When an Obama daughter gets admitted to Harvard it’s not merely a matter of being an URM daughter of a sitting president — that daughter also came through Sidwell Friends, where her classmates included the children of senators & and diplomats & cabinet officials-- and which is where you enroll your kid if you have money, live in the DC area, and want your kid to go to an Ivy. So it’s not just the monied elite – it is the power elite.
I don’t think it’s a race thing, I think it’s a power thing. Look at who holds political office.
Over the years, quite a few students from our swim team (especially the tall girls) have been recruited for crew. They aren’t getting scholarships but the colleges are approaching them rather than vice versa. I think the crossover is supposed to be relatively easy due to the nature of the training.
@Calmom yep…
@calmom, I get what you mean about USC – I’m old enough to remember how we in the UCs poked fun of what was then a school for dumb rich kids. But that was yesterday’s USC. Today’s USC – and its generous merit aid – attracts really strong students (average freshman SATs are comparative to the top UCs.) The school has a few world-class departments that also happen to have a lot visibility (film, communications, business) and yes, it has that fun-for-rich kids vibe despite the somewhat alarming location (though that too is improving.) I really don’t think there’s a reason USC can’t become the Stanford of Southern California in a few more decades (and fewer admits of the Olivia Jade variety.)
Just want to add – I’m not trying to “bash” USC by expressing my puzzlement over why parents would $$$$ to bribe & cheat to get their kids in … it’s just that I don’t see USC as fitting into that elite level as compared to schools like Harvard or Yale. I think one can reasonably assess “chances” of admission there, bearing in mind that a chance is not a certainty. Of course there are many students whose GPA & test scores clearly put them in no-chance territory – so that is why some parents would have felt the need to cheat. But I think that for many CC parents the front door still seems like the best and simplest way in. (Great grades, strong test scores, and pretty good EC’s should still be enough.)
BTW, a friend of mine sent his kids to Harvard Westlake. I thought it was interesting that by far the most popular university for Harvard Westlake grads the year his daughter graduated was USC. 29 kids in the graduating class that year ended up there.
@calmom and @ShanFerg3
Thanks. Yes, there are always the feeders. As a Massachusetts person I know then well, great point.
But, if you talk to parents and Hyps adcom types the days of the Exeter bus pulling up for H are supposedly gone.
My wife’s family are Deerfield grads going back a couple of gens. My nephew was dissuaded from doing a pg year there as a gap because of the perception “it hurt” more than it helps these days. Except for the elite students.
Heck I don’t know. But thanks for thst reminder. I am sure it’s part of the story.