Feds uncover admissions test cheating plot

Applying to College
2881

@observer12 Your post fails to take into account that coaches primarily want their teams to win, and their jobs depend considerably on that fact, which means recruiting the best athletes they can attract. If a coach has six slots each year (which means roughly six graduating seniors), it would be career suicide to give half the slots to non-athletes.

This scandal has uncovered a handful of corrupt coaches who were willing to take bribes and used a few of their slots to do so. Maybe there are more crooked coaches out there, but it’s far from the norm.

BTW, most gifts to a particular sport or athletic foundation are from alumni athletes, not parents of prospective student athletes.

2882

“For example, when considering any way that merit is measured, people tend to think of merit that their own group acquires as fully earned, but that groups who acquire merit more successfully do so because of unfair advantages, while groups that are less successful at acquiring merit are blamed for their own failings to do so.”

Bullseye.

Hence so much of the discussion here on CC. The [name of your hook] kids are not that smart. No, the [name of my hook] kids are quite smart and hardworking and deserving and the break they get is so small.

Back and forth.

2883

Re : #2875 @northwesty

There is a thread about what people think should be used in college admissions: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/2131128-pew-research-asks-americans-what-criteria-should-be-used-to-determine-college-admission.html

2884

THIS! Why do we put any weighted value on the thoughts or (political analysis) of someone who is paid to act like they are someone else.

And. Why do we put any weighted value on the thoughts or (political analysis) of anyone whose happens to be good at a sport?

We need to rethink our hero culture.

2885

What do people who want more transparency want the colleges to do? Their websites tell you what they value. The Common Data Set tells you test score and GPA ranges, and it specifies what the college thinks is important. They even specify the importance of those items on a scale. What more do you want them to do?

2886

No, I think too many revere the elite. The old American Dream gone too far. And then we revel in their fails.

Plotinus, if anyone thinks they’re the quality for a top or toppy top college, they should be able to dig deeper than a media ranking, blogs, or a forum. Not ask for the answer key, so to say. It does require some effort. But anyone can rise to that, if they think a top school is reachable.

Instead, they bemoan the work and point fingers. Too many aren’t even researching their majors at schools, recommended coursework, etc. Can’t write a Why Us. They ask on CC. They just want to know if they can get in. But those colleges want to see an awareness and energy, the sort that allows one to look.

And the scammers wanted the same sort of shortcut.

2887

@lookingforward Thank you for a good post. But much more importantly for the new term

“Toppy top”!

I can run with that. For some reason “tippy top” is like nails on a chalkboard. Maybe it just feels super elitist and I can’t tell anyone why.

I will forever defer to “toppy top”! Or top or tip top.

2888

@lookingforward

I keep wondering what happens when the answer to “why us” is simply, that “you meet financial need.” There is a heart breaking thread on here by a DACA kid trying desperately to find a school that will let him get an education. Fit is a luxury. There are kids on here, desperate to know their chances because they just want to go to college. I know its not everyone. For the most part, its not the kids from my town. And its not these wealthy families. But I just can’t help having sympathy for the kids on CC trying desperately to figure it out.

2889

@Hanna - I didn’t know that at all about Naviance. Interesting info.

@gallentjill - I grew up and did undergrad in one country, went to grad school in another (at a toppy top, lol, I love that term too haha). The cost of university education is a hot topic everywhere there are fees, including the UK where previous generous subsidies have been slashed, but I have never seen anywhere else where sticker prices for undergrad - and the resultant juggling of fit vs offers vs merit - are anywhere near what they are here.

2890

@SJ2727 thank you for jumping on board with “toppy top”.

Let’s make something good come out of all of this scandal!

Have a good afternoon everyone. I have to get back to “suppressing the proletariat” as my industry stands accused. Or keeping my job as my wife calls it.

=D>

2891

I’'m sorry, @gallentjill, but these top colleges don’t want to hear your interest is nothing more than a calculation. And/or that you couldn’t stretch any further to find your match. There are just too many applicants. And there are other options, like cc. A number of states have the Guaranteed Transfer option, which, to my mind, is pretty miraculous.

Bear in mind that most kids seem to not know Why Us beyond what they like about a college. It’s common to see, “You have my major” or “You’re a top school and I want a top school,” called “generic” by adcoms. I.e., any school will do it (as long as the FA works and it’s the tier they want.) “A degree from you will get me into a top grad/prof school.” Or something about dreaming about X since they were little. Huh? How much thinking does that show? What energy? It sometimes comes across as superficial and/or opportunism. They never self match.

The problem with Mossimo, Loughlin’s husband, is he wanted a school “better than ASU.” I’m not clear on how the older daughter got into USC, but they apparently wanted OJ at the same. What they want, not what she earned.

If you read comprehensively about these wanted colleges, what they say and what shows in their various blurbs, notices, PR, an interview with a bigwig, some new program they now offer, some unique aspect to their offerings, the schools for whom interest and fit matter most, you get a picture. Columbia, NYU, and Penn don’t want to hear you’re intimidated by the city locations (kids say that.) Dart doesn’t want to hear you chose to apply because Boston intrigues you. It gets worse. Think about how many, so desperate for MIT, have never even read the blogs, didn’t even look enough to see them, right there. How many write about their fatal flaws.

Meanwhile, these kids think their hs stats and a few club titles are all the “merit” they need. And if someone says, you need to balance those ECs, others insist that’s padding, inauthentic, you just need to be “you.” Sheesh.

Cheating is rampant, yes. CB needs to revise, yes. Coach recs should be vetted better, yes. But if you want a top school, be the sort who can learn what they’re about. Beyond USNews rank.

You need to be the sort who can think, process, and act on what you learn and your interests- in relevant ways. Not just float.

2892

“No, I think too many revere the elite.”

That’s it right there - 20 “ordinary excellent” applicants playing a game of musical chairs with only two chairs. Surprise surprise, 18 kids (and their parents) are going to be unhappy when the music stops playing and cry “no fair.” Of course it’s not fair. But here’s the thing. You don’t have to play the game. If you are one of those outstanding but unhooked students, forget about those single digit admission rate schools. Stick to schools with admission rates in the 20s - you will get into some of those, and there are lots of them out there offering excellent opportunities. Maybe take a shot at a couple of schools with admission rates in the teens. Tough to get into, but your chances rise above the theoretical level. I know several parents of “ordinary excellent” students who followed this strategy, and none of them are on the Northwestern RD thread right now complaining about their DD or DS getting dinged.

2893

Too many revere the elite schools too.

2894

@lookingforward

I know. I’m not arguing with your advice. Its clearly correct. I just feel the tone is harsh. Yes, they have to make the colleges feel truly wanted AND that the student has something to offer. But for many kids its just not true. They don’t care that much where they end up as long as they have a place to go. I have sympathy for that. My sympathy won’t get them in. Your advice will. Life is not fair.

2895

I sympathize, too. I’m familiar with a lot of lower SES apps, by choice, and am generally in awe of what they’ve done. Much more than other comfy kids. It’s not misplaced affection or pity. It’s there. I defend them against the usual sterotypes. Meanwhile, so many on CC go on about how the wealthy kids offer some bought advantages and it just isn’t any rule that they do. I know no adcom who values LAX camp more than individual industry, with genuine, roll up your sleeves, compassionate efforts (not just a count of hours, in and out.)

So if that kid needed the FA and asked me, I’d advise him to start reading a little deeper, find how he matches, show the enthusiasm, make his best effort. They can. And the bright ones do. In a sense, glass half full.

2896

@Gourmetmom

I agree with everything you said. But you ignored my point.

It obviously isn’t “career suicide” to give some spots to students whose parents have a lot of money and are willing to throw some your way. That is why there are so many coaches involved – U Pennsylvania, Yale, Stanford, Georgetown, USC, Texas, etc.

That is what surprised me about the scandal. I thought the coaches had so few recruiting spots that they needed to reserve them only for the very best athletes in order to field a good team. Turns out I am wrong.

And the fact that the USC water polo coach was the most successful water polo coach in history and could still apparently sell some seats certainly suggests it.

These are sports that aren’t paid attention to and the coaches at those universities are not expected to field championship calibre teams every year. And I never said ALL the recruiting seats were given to $2 million donors. I said some of them were. Perhaps only 1 or 2 each year.

I just pointed out that your logic would suggest that you don’t see anything wrong with an athlete’s family making a $2 million dollar donation to the athletics department and then having their child get a recruiting spot over students who are better athletes and better academically. You seem to believe that as long as the recruited athlete met some baseline criteria of athleticism and academics, there is nothing wrong with their recruit application going into a special pile for prospective recruits whose parents can donate $2 million.

I agree with you that a college should be able to do this if they believe that $2 million donation is good for the institution. Where we disagree is the idea that the donation that puts your recruited athlete in a special pile where all he needs to do is meet some baseline criteria to be designated a recruit should be tax-deductible since it is very clear that the donor gets something quite valuable in return.

2897

I think gourmetmom gets it, in the right ways. Just saying.
But she also recognized that very few families give $2mm. Very few of their kids are near or at the application point. Many top donors have kids already out of college and established. Nor did she say anythng I took to mean “baseline,” as in so squeaking through that some hypothetically better kid was unethically denied. You have to step back and understand the hypothetical “worthy” kids that some seem to think are being denied en masse, are in the minority, to begin with. These kids are generally not shunted aside. But it’s not just stats and titles that define merit.

I’m not makng excuses for some dastardly policy. I just don’t see the widespread abuse of admissons that others assume. An unqualified mega donor kid is zero shoo-in. Not accepted. His plans diverted before any grandiose OJ type dreams.

And 2mm is small in the scheme of things.

2898

At the end of the day scandal is making money for Olivia Jade since everyone now knows who she is and is checking out her youtube channel to see what she says about going to college and partying.

Though she may have disabled comments on her videos each click just means more $$$ for her.

2899

I read a nice one the other day on this -

How Parents Are Robbing Their Children of Adulthood
Today’s “snowplow parents” keep their children’s futures obstacle-free — even when it means crossing ethical and legal boundaries.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/16/style/snowplow-parenting-scandal.html

2900

For starters, tell the public not only what factors are important but also how they evaluate each factor and how each factor is weighted in a decision. For example, how is the athletic hook weighted, relative to the academic factors? What weight is given to the legacy hook? And so on.