@PetraMC
Just point of information: Whatever Singer managed was through private contacts, in my understanding, anyway. (Individual to individual) It’s my understanding that admission reps (as opposed to coaches, for example) do not welcome phone calls and “direct advocacy” by private consultants. It seems to me that it’s the athletic recruitment process that is particularly prone to corruption, given that by its very nature it is not “mainstream” and direct. There are other opportunities which are also not mainstream, such as a case I know of which involved a friend of a donor’s family, which friend worked at the elite university in question, advocating for the student in the Early Round to be accepted. The friend doing the advocating did not work in admissions but in another department/function of the university. The student was indeed admitted.
Yale and other elites can try to control informal and indirect influence, but ultimately it might be hard to control completely.
Not all applications would need to be super vetted as not all present as solid contenders.
I don’t think it’s fair to rely on GCs solely. Many are too overworked. But, you could up the penalties to the high schools severely. Make it a school.or district responsibility and shut the door when cheating is discovered(or 2nd+ offense.)
Just like when a sports team is sidelined for offenses.
Forgot to mention, morning inherently wrong with using a private counselor. It’s when the interaction is abused…
Yes, I mean through private contacts. I’m sure it’s impossible to control completely, but it’s better managed with a policy of “all contact with University about first year applicants goes through the admissions department.” If they wanted to do that (which…right…)
@heebeejeebees To me, it’s someone paying $60,000+ to someone who is promising access or inside information. Everything else, to me, is tutoring/editing and unethical “editing.” For the record, I don’t think there is anything wrong with hiring someone to help you get your application together and target schools. That’s what most private counselors do and I doubt that’s what schools are worried about.
He is indeed a strong student but he is not generally inclined towards engineering. It is a testament to Queen’s engineering program that he has applied and it’s the only engineering program that he’s applied to. While he had a good chance of being admitted to Waterloo or U of T’s engineering programs that’s not really his cup of tea. The bulk of his applications have been to straight Physics programs (one of those toilet paper degrees the high schoolers would have us believe). His top choice however is an integrated science program (with a concentration in Physics) which is a huge reach due to its very competitive admissions. He did apply to Waterloo for Physics and was accepted but there are other schools he prefers more (Queen’s being one of them). He did not apply to U of T at all. Being on CC for so long has sold me on the concept of “fit” over “prestige” and I don’t think U of T would have been a good fit for him. MIT on the other hand…
Waterloo and U of T’s engineering programs get harder and harder to get admitted to every year. It’s a large part of why Waterloo has gone to holistic admissions and U of T weeds out in first year by having a really high GPA requirement to proceed to 2nd year. The reality is that due to rampant grade inflation it’s getting more and more competitive to get admitted to any major at the top schools and more and more programs are going holistic or have added secondary hurdles for major selection. It’s this kind of rat race that leads to gaming but yet those students (and their parents) who try to game the system never seem to think beyond getting admitted. I don’t get how they think they are going to be able to survive in such competitive programs if they have to cheat their way in. It’s not just that admissions are tough, the programs themselves are very academically challenging. The reality is that despite the opinion of high school students grading across institutions is generally similar and there are no "gentleman’s C’s. Going to a lower tiered school is not going to get you higher grades if you don’t have the academic chops to begin with.
Colleges wouldn’t need to verify all applications, just the ones that are selected for admission. Also, there would be no need to audit all the information on each app. As apps are selected for admissions, the AOs/decision maker could highlight which info was critical to the app and a small team could audit those facts only. Would that catch 100% of the cheaters? No, but it would catch most and the fact that colleges were auditing facts on apps would prove to be a deterrant.
“My guess is that they will rely more on HS college counselors for students they are ready to admit and scrutinize the private counselors who call and advocate directly through personal relationships.”
When it comes to schools like Yale, there’s no such thing. If the applicant’s family is personal friends with a trustee or something like that, sure, relationships might come into play. But you can’t buy the relationships that actually make a difference from a private counselor for any amount of money. (You CAN buy some valuable relationships by going to prep school at St. Grottlesex; issue for a separate thread.)
Consultants like myself who are members of IECA or HECA are forbidden under ethical rules from lobbying for students or trying to work our connections. But even for non-member consultants who don’t care about those ethical rules, Yale doesn’t take calls from consultants. Whoville College might, but not Yale, and not anybody within spitting distance of Yale. Any halfway competent consultant knows they should never be visible to a highly selective university.
Big jumps in SAT can be done legitimately. Back in 2009 D2 improved her score from a 1950 to a 2210 - which meant that she then added a few Ivy schools to her list.
She accomplished a 260 point jump by applying the “Xiggi Method” of SAT studying that we learned right here on CC. I suppose the schools never raised any questions about the jump because she scored a 34 on the ACT at around the same time which tended to validate the improved SAT.
That’s not anything I was responding to. I was responding to the earlier idea that merely the fact of hiring a private consultant could easily be checked by any university. Not without considerable effort, it couldn’t. It could involve invasion of people’s computers, phone logs, and the like – on a routine and massive scale, given that especially in some regions, use of consultants is routine and in fact the majority behavior. I have a DBA, but many private consultants do not. Some are members of associations; some are not.
I got a late start and it took me seemingly forever to read through this entire thread. Luckily I qualified for extra time.
Anyone else wonder if these were the one and only unethical, if not illegal, transgressions perpetrated by these desperate parents (business dealings, tax filings, auditioning, etc.)? Mind you, I’m aware of no evidence on the matter whatsoever - but we’ve all seen how greed, power, and status aspirations can affect people’s decision making.
Perhaps, but I don’t think those attributes and attitudes are unique to this group.
I take it you are asking a fair question -
If they are willing to cheat in this area would they cheat on their taxes or undermine a rival at work. Or maybe cheat on their spouse?
I don’t know. But let the “man who is without sin cast the next stone” is my motto.
I hope they just lost their freakin minds over protecting and trying to help Junior out of misguided love. And probably a good bit of personal pride and ego. But I’m not willing to make them the Manson family.
My son raised his SAT score from 1900 to 2220 by taking many, many practice exams. It got him into Amherst as a recruited runner, but not Dartmouth. Yes, this is the kid who is now sanding furniture at a painted furniture factory, so you never know what life holds!
@MaineLonghorn That’s how Norm Abramson, the world renowned Nantucket craftsman on PBS “this old house started”. Sanding furniture. And he went to UMass/Amherst. But I don’t think he finished so you’re ahead of the game already! Not that I am at all saying what is your son’s goal at all. But boy, I really admire norm and wish I had his talent and eye for beauty.
Does a near perfect set of SAT or ACT scores indicate brilliance or simply a mastery of subject matter? I always thought that the tests were meant to be a measure of college preparedness. In that regard, 1500+ or 34+ scores should all be viewed as identically well prepared for the academic rigors of each of the most selective schools. With so many candidates that are ready for the academic challenge, it makes sense for colleges to fill their student body with diverse populations, as determined in a manner that is consistent with goals set by themselves.
About two-thirds of applicants with PERFECT standardized test scores in ACT and SAT are rejected at Harvard, Stanford etc. They receive so many. The chances are as good with 1500+ or equivalent if B C and D are strong.
Thank you for posting. However if the global online academy is in addition to a regular curriculum, ecs, sports and volunteering. I say no way! Enough with the curious learner etc for me.
Please let’s give childhood back to our kids.
Is this important to a full and meaningful life?
They can develop these more indepth academic experiences in college. And when they have a bit more maturity.
The Dean of Admissions at Stanford may unwittingly help to further escalate the admissions arms race. Add another “box” to check for the kid.
Interested and curious learner? Check. Take 10 of these courses. Check. No 15 is better. Check.
Ride a bike? Who has time for that.
I love the idea of this academy for adult learners or if it is brought into areas with lousy schools.
Or if it is in lieu of their current school.
That’s not how I read it, please correct me if I am wrong.
