I find this all quite satisfying - I actually know somebody who’s child was recruited
@Mwfan1921 I stand corrected.
I wonder whether a good number of them were smaller scale and cheaper, like having corrections on an ACT, which are likely easier to do in “bulk”, and therefore will be cheaper?
In any case, if we’re looking at acceptances over multiple years (my numbers earlier were only for 2018, and it looks like more colleges were implicated than the ones i counted), 800 or even 1,600 is still a very small fraction, so it doesn’t really change my other claims.
So if one donated to Singer’s fake charity for admittance its bribery but if a parent donates directly to the university to get the kid admitted it is okay.
“Also be interested in seeing what happens when the press starts asking questions like: “President/Provost/Head of the Trustees…” Joe Schmo, the integrity of the admissions process at (Stanford, Yale, insert name of top 100 institution here) has been called into question by the athletic recruit cheating scandal. It would be very easy for you to pull the records of every admit who received a recruiting preference and verify their athletic credentials. Will you do this to restore credibility to your institution?"”
@Lindagaf Yes, you are probably right. It is just that I cannot imagine that happening in my kids’ school. Unthinkable, but you never know…
@momo2x2018 So, without details, would do you think they are thinking/feeling now?
And not someone on this indictment, right? Or are you saying you know someone in the complaint list?
It makes me sad that the parents would value the name of the University over their actual child. The message that their child “as is” is not good enough for them. These are children that have had many - if not every advantage for success and they are still not “good enough” for their parents. Their scores aren’t good enough, or their courses, or their ECs or the name of the school that actually wants them for who they are - all not good enough that they would have to go to such unethical lengths to cover for their children’s perceived shortcomings. Are these extremely wealthy and powerful people the “victims” of an unfair admissions policy where their influence alone can’t open doors and does that justify in their entitled minds the practice lying and cheating to get in at any cost. I can’t begin to imagine the scars that this leaves on their children. I am just SMH at the rational that prestige is more important that loving, honoring, and valuing the child that you have. And for what end? The experience of a named school? The doors it opens (for people who already have so much)?
My final thought is that there is always a backlash when people bring up the testing accommodations that some families obtain under false pretenses yet this case shows that it happens. There is fraud involved with extended testing time all the time, this just highlights the slippery slope of different testing conditions for different students. Perhaps a solution is for ALL students to have the option of taking timed or untimed tests. The test scores should get reported as timed or untimed and all test takers should have the choice. Colleges can then decide what they value and admit students based on that criteria. Be it fast processing speed and working memory or deeper analysis and perseverance all students from one test have the same rules. It seems ripe for fraud when some get extra time and as a result an advantage and others don’t but there is no indication on the applications either way. The publicity of this case is bad for all the valid cases of those who NEED accommodations who will get lumped in with this fraud.
I am also amazed a the few CC posters who are not surprised, not bothered by this, or who a quick to defend. This is not business as usual for the rich and famous but rather involves so many different layers of this admissions beast that we are all forced to deal with as our children try to navigate this process ethically. I wonder how many CC parents/students have skirted the edges of some of this or who know people involved in crap like this.
Has any kid of a former president been denied admission to the university of their choice? I sincerely doubt it.
We can argue about whether it’s OK, but it’s not illegal, whereas Singer’s scheme is.
@websensation It is USC, not UCLA. Private school aspirations seem to rule for these families. It is unfortunate and shameful . I like Felicity Huffman, William H. Macy, and Lori Loughlin. This is very disappointing. I can think of other celebrities whose kids seem to have ended up at some of these colleges in question. There may be more surprises as this plays out.
websensation- people on here who are not rich celebrities want their kids to go to elite colleges that make no sense. It’s all about the prestige. Some people can’t help the need to brag and be the best.
I’m late to the conversation but knew there would be a lively thread on this.
A lot of issues with this one. Cheating on the SAT/ACT and lack of College Board/ACT oversight. Corruption within the organizations. Cheating by families. Bribes paid. Cheating by coaches. Possible entrapment issues. What did the colleges know and possibly allow? Will students be expelled? I’d get out my popcorn and watch, but am so disgusted by it. Major standing ovation to the DOJ though!
FWIW, a friend in CA texted me that they had interviewed this guy for their daughter, but the daughter didn’t like him and wouldn’t work with him. Great instincts! He was charging 15k and didn’t indicate he has special connections but talked about it all being a numbers game. Clearly my friend thought he was talking GPA and test score.
Wonder if this Singer guy was paying off someone at the college board to overlook the jump in scores?
70% of the freshman class at HYPS are - and have pretty much have always been - kids from wealthy families. (You can google the stats, they check out). So that should tell you something right there.
“Wealthy” btw is code for well-connected, typically full pay kids of college-educated parents, usually private schooled or top publics, not just regular middle class rich who have a good car and a house. RICH. And usually, though not always, brainless, clueless and lacking total work ethic for the foreseeable future.
20-25% are from the ordinary solidly middle class who are expected to either sell their homes to come up with tuition or sell their kids’ childhoods to Intel Science Fairs, exhausting sports practice schedules (preferably both) coupled with a variety of preferably horrendous, amazing or both experiences for themselves and/or their loved ones, and whichever gladiator from that arena is the standing gets the prize. These are the usually sincere about getting an education bunch of hamsters on the wheel, at least half of whom will comprise the future lower classes.
The remaining 5% are the lower class (yes, class is very much a thing in America), euphemistaically called “low income” (but everyone knows what that means) and again, this group too get to be gladiators and enter the ring. The one with the worst experiences and highest scores out of those experiences, gets offered crumbs of free tuition (elite colleges usually have billions in endowments and pensions and whatnot racked up, so a few kids on free ride is really nothing for them). All this, so that this token group of admits can enrich the experiences of the rich (mostly white) kids without having them stray off campus to the shanties bordering 90% of them. After all, these folks aren’t connected and even if they get jobs after graduation, most of them likely won’t make it much more beyond being solidly middle class - it’s not like they are going to become billionaries anytime soon - so what’s a few tokens. They are essentially no threat to the establishment. And these are the ones who have the untapped potential to do big things, if they only had the chance from day one (read: school days).
College athetics directors and coaches accepting bribes to place kids? Really? When is that such an outrage? Happens everyday across courts, fields and tracks across America in every other private prep school and college. This is a normal, common occurance as any person of means would (likely not) tell you. But if you think college coaches have the last say in admissions, you’re either very naive or have your heads in the sand. The last say is the Office of Admissions and every person in it, from the Dean down. It’s the Dean who signs off on every admit - first to last. And its the admissions teams who can have cake and eat it.
It’s not (merely) the parents who are fault here, or the coaches, tutors or whoever scapegoat they have going before this thing is hushed up before tomorrow morning’s presses roll. It’s the colleges themselves that are complicit, and no one is willing to point that out. They are crying rivers of tears as victims. Every press release they’ve put out since this morning states in plaintive terms that they’re the victim. Yes, and we were all born yesterday.
“I’m late to the conversation but I don’t get how the college board didn’t flag these just jumps in test scores? Wouldn’t it be fishy all coming from the same testing sites?”
In many cases, it seems these “jumps” in scores were improving students who did “average” on their own, and when someone else took the test for them, or helped them take it, they did “very well”. They were careful not to do too well overall as that would raise suspicion.
They were not all from the same testing sites - they flew the Cooperating Witness 2 (the former Harvard Tennis Player) all over the country to help these students (who had gotten accommodations for more time and a separate room), take the test, typically in a location away from their regular high school.
I wonder if Loughlin and Hufman will get to play themselves in the movie after they hire lawyers to get them out of this.
The way I read it, the families mostly flew to Houston or Los Angeles to take the test from the crooked proctor.
@damon30 the mom is probably wishing she had not taken the controls of that particular helicopter; on the other hand, the kid is a nice kid who may have possibly gained admission on own merit, however, we’ll never know.
What is s/he’s thinking and feeling? I don’t know - probably sad, scared, ashamed of mom’s actions.
I think for some of the kids, they absolutely knew what their parents were doing i.e. who takes an SAT test spread over two days?! In those cases, the kids should bear some of the responsibility and punishment. For others, I believe it is entirely possible they had no clue…What I do hope is that ALL the kids get the professional mental health they are going to need to get through this as it plays out on the global stage.
Nobord - well said!
Amy Carter was asked to leave Brown, though.
“It is very strange that high schools, guidance counselors , teachers, coaches did not have a clue.”
@sevmom: I’m sure plenty in HS did have a clue. But they wouldn’t have proof, and how would any of them be incented or rewarded for blowing the whistle?
"There’s no way Mr. Big Shot’s D got in to Yale on merit and I have no proof of any wrong-doing , but, but, but I’ll say something and make a fuss and adversely affect my school and career (instead of saying “I’m proud that Dummy D got in to Yale; she’s such a fine example of the excellent education we provide”) and make an enemy of powerful people and institutions because it’s the Right Thing to Do.
Yeah, I see tons of people who’d sign up for martyrdom.