“hands of dirt”
Hmmm…haven’t heard that one before. We do see people who simply can’t be successful in tissue culture, but that has more to do with inability to follow rules and protocols.
Thanks everyone for providing me things to consider as I internalize (and learn from!) this situation
@mom2collegekids in my email I was thinking of saying something like (except in a cleaned up manner): thank you for the opportunity you had provided me to to work in your lab, I had a great time learning from you and the other lab members, and enjoyed the various experiments I was given. sorry things didn’t work out. I’m thinking about future research position, would you feel comfortable providing a strong or positive reference
Should I omit anything (like the part about the reference) or maybe include anything?
It’s still unclear to me whether the OP is not the problem. My D is a Lab Manager at one of HYPSM, and she is appalled at the lack of work ethic/promptness of some of the undergrads who have applied to volunteer in her lab…she’s willing to train, but for that to happen, they have to show up with their 'tude checked at the door. Unfortunately, that ain’t always the case. Sometimes you have to wash bottles for awhile to be allowed to do more important stuff.
OP, I like the tone of the words you noted here, but would skip asking directly for a “strong or positive reference.” You did say your supervisor was willing to do this- now you’re referring to two different folks, right? The manager/PI may feel that request is presumptuous, so soon. Instead, you could end with something about how you hope to find another research position in the future. Later, if another opportunity requires more than a rec from the supervisor, you can deal with that. You can also ask the supervisor now, for some sort of letter attesting to your positives, (just in case you lose contact, for any reason.)
We’ve all had jobs that did us in, one way or another. I don’t know that this is completely all your fault, we don’t know enough to judge. But the point is to learn from this experience, make the right parts a life lesson. Your writing here sounds grounded and I wish you the best.
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's still unclear to me whether the OP is not the problem. My D is a Lab Manager at one of HYPSM, and she is appalled at the lack of work ethic/promptness of some of the undergrads who have applied to volunteer in her lab…she’s willing to train, but for that to happen, they have to show up with their 'tude checked at the door. U
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this is why it’s important that this young person truly discern what he did wrong. It doesn’t really sound like an issue of “personalities,” unless this young person rebels when being told what to do, and therefore passively aggressively didn’t do what was needed.
My DH said that during one of his last business trips before he retired, one of the newish grads who was also on the trip made some snide comment about how it’s not fair that the “old guys” make so much more money. He even went as far as saying that he has a hard time respecting authority. What the heck? No filter! Clueless! This sort of thing isn’t just a personality conflict, it’s an entitlement problem. Oh, and he also got a security violation because he brought his personal laptop into a secured area. Guess he didn’t think the rules applied to him. If he had been fired, I imagine he would have said that he had a “personality issue” with his superiors.
@Need34orAbove In what ways were you a poor worker? Were you texting, checking your phone? surfing the net? not following instructions? avoiding “grunt work”? making expensive or time-consuming mistakes?
in your letter, don’t include the question about the reference. Your PI already said he’d give you a good reference, leave it at that. Just thank him for the opportunity, and maybe mention something positive about what you learned from the experience ( I don’t mean the lessons from being fired).
My dh (who runs a lab) is driven crazy by grad students who spend time on facebook or reading stuff on their phone. When he has down time (and there often is time in the lab) he wants them catching up with the literature, writing grants or doing something else in the lab. Don’t take your cues from the other students. Make sure you know what the PI (and the manager) expect.
Something similar happened to a patient of mine. She was working in a lab. Her PI made frequent remarks that she worked too slow. We discussed her perfectionism. Her response was to work longer hours. We also talked about switching to another PI, as she never heard a positive remark from hers. At the end of the semester she was un-hired.
As this girl couldn’t work more efficiently, and never spoke to other PIs, she looked for a different line of work. She ended up in the tutoring section.
OP, if this was your first experience in a lab, think about what you liked and disliked in this line of work. I know my son has had mixed experiences in various labs.
@mom2collegekids Yeah in my down time, I did use my phone/my laptop. There also were some problems following directions (some regarding “dirty work”). I think it was both a mix of internal and external issues. I was only given 2 weeks of training and a lot of the stuff I needed to learn was not taught to me. After the other worker that had my position (he was training me) left due to graduation, I was kind of left to fend for myself as I didn’t really receive help or instruction from anyone. A lot of the other undergrads/high schoolers/grad students/post-docs did use their phone and such on their down time to text and stuff so I began to do the same (wrong move like @mathmom mentioned). There was another first year worker at the lab that was also paid and he was never given any of the dirty/grunt work so I guess there were times I felt resentful. In hindsight that was probably incredibly stupid but I guess hindsight is 20/20.
The more I think about it, a lot of this stuff sounds like common sense but I had to juggle working at an official job for the first time, living by myself for the first time, etc which may have clouded my judgement.
Regardless I don’t like making excuses and in retrospect, I feel like I should have just worried about myself, did as I was told and tried to be the better worker.
D2 is an intern at a district attorney’s office this summer. Most interns show up at 9:30, but D2 gets to work before 9 because she wants to be first one in line when assignments are given. I often have difficulty in getting in touch with her during the day because she keepst her phone in her bag. She doesn’t leave until her manager leaves. I didn’t tell her to do all of those things, but she has heard me talk about people at work that she knows what to do in an office. I have a pet peeve about young people texting at work constantly, so she knows not to do that at work.
I, on the other hand, didn’t have parents to tell me what to do or not to do. I was fired from my first office job because I didn’t bother to change out of my school outfit (t-shirt and shorts) before I went to my after school job. I learned from my experience. Ever since then, I always followed office protocol. I also always showed up before and left after my boss.
OP - look at this as a learning moment. Don’t let it get to you. You will do better in the future. That’s why employers like people with work experience.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
While users may continue to post, the OP has left the building.
Thank you for opening this thread.
Thru thoughtful reflection, the OP has been able to discern some of his shortcomings, which likely led to his being let-go.
It’s beneficial for parents and students to read this thread. Parents have posted about mistakes or lessons they’ve learned on jobs that they or others have lost. I think @oldfort 's post about her job loss due to clothing choices made a good point, and someone else’s post about young people checking their phones and Facebook throughout their work shifts is also a problem.
If others want to post about other job losses (either theirs or others) and what the causes likely were, that would be great. My H remembers an employee that was let-go because she truly talked too much. It annoyed the other employees trying to get work done. I guess she would come up to people’s desks, chatter away, and wouldn’t “go away” no matter how much the people tried to hint.
Judging by the OP’s reflections, she/he got some valuable lessons out of the experience. As I suspected, the supervision and training also lacked, which does not reflect favorably upon the lab. Interns, undergrads especially, do not come pre-trained and need to be taught the specific techniques. Also, the projects that they get assigned have to be manageable and lead to reasonable success. Without any positive results, even a passionate intern might feel completely de-motivated and lose interest in the science; that’s why at the companies where I work we would give our new interns simple projects (like synthesis of a compound invented and previously made by a senior scientist), but challenging enough for their level of skill and involving multiple techniques.
BTW, to avoid personality and style conflicts, many PhD programs used to offer lab rotation for first year grad students to give them some feel for their specific fit into these PI’s labs.