<p>I asked my daughter if she thought she should have done that in retrospect. She said, “no”. As she described it to me, there is a qualitative difference in high school math and college math: high school math uses numbers and college math doesn’t. It was the math without numbers that didn’t “click” for her. As she put it, “I like numbers in my math”. She turned right around and took a stat course in the math department and, I believe, got her highest college grade in that course without breaking a sweat, helping friends who struggled in THAT course.</p>
<p>It’s all “horses for courses” I guess. The real moral of the story, I think, is for students to not keep trying to pound a square peg into a round hole after they find out it doesn’t fit.</p>
<p>Maybe the question for the colleges and professors: are they doing something wrong in teaching courses like Calc 2 and Orgo Chem when the student struggles are so widespread across every imaginable college and, especially among students who don’t struggle grasp concepts? Is academic math teaching so inbred over the years to the point of having run completely off the tracks?</p>
<p>I think in some cases, Calc II and Orgo are the first really difficult classes that a bright student will come across, and there’s a learning curve.</p>
<p>I don’t post very much anymore, but I feel the need to post this as I have personal experience with this issue. I dropped Calc 2 several times due to below-C grades at midterm. I thought the problem was with the material, but it was actually due to anxiety and panicking on tests. What had happened was the greater challenge of the material shook my confidence and left me unable to concentrate on exams. I went to a couple counseling sessions, and this semester I got an A in the course and actually really enjoyed it. You may want to consider if problem is more psychological rather than academic in nature. Best of luck!</p>
<p>Agreed about Calc II and Orgo being the toughest courses. They definitely were for my D. Although she had her lowest grade in Calc II, she says Orgo I & II were actually harder. And she’d also throw in Phys II (the engineering version–God knows why she took that one. She was a biology major!)</p>
<p>I also believe that for my D, the confidence boost that she got from retaking Calc I after having the AP credit really carried her through and helped prepare her for Calc II. For her, it was somewhat “psycological”, as emswim has described. But she’s also not a math girl, and much prefers science.
She struggled with the conceptual issues that interesteddad brings up as well.</p>
<p>S1 signed up to retake Calc. 1 as a freshman even though he had the AP credit from Calc AB (taken in jr. yr h.s.). He started immediately calling home telling us the TA teaching the class had an accent so thick that he could not understand half of it. He did poorly on the first two tests and on the advice of his advisor dropped the class.</p>
<p>In the Spring semester, rather than fall behind, he jumped straight into Calc. 2. It was hard for but he plugged along. He came out with a B- and was thrilled. The thing that got him through was attending the Profs. office hours every week. Most of the time S was the only student to show up and the prof would sit down with him and walk him through the homework problems. Most of the tests were based on the homework assignments so office hours were a huge plus for anybody who bothered to show up.</p>
<p>S says Calc. 2 is a big weed-out course at his State U. known for engineering.</p>
<p>Up next… Physics 2 for engineering (he’s not an engineering major but had to take the same Calc and Physics for NROTC). It was the worst class ever for him. He came out of it with a C- and was very happy. </p>
<p>How is that possible, MOWC? Are you saying there are indeed TA in large research universities? Are you saying they speak poor English? </p>
<p>Say it ain’t so, dear MOWC, because the other forums are surely in complete denial. </p>
<p>Sorry, I could not resist! On the real issue, as many people have written, there is no reason to panic. The transition between high school and college for a class such as Calculus is indeed brutal, except for the colleges that are sweeping the issue under the rug. The reality is that, except for very, very few high schools and students, the “stuff” that is called Calculus in high school (including the AP and other two-letter BS) is hardly comparable.</p>
<p>If there was one element of education that should be addressed immediately and drastically, this must be it. The only good news is that students do survive and simply end up hating math for the rest of their life. </p>
<p>Because of a few idiots masquerading as teachers!</p>
<p>I love the idea that whatever4’s nephew had. Audit same course by a different prof. Brilliant!</p>
<p>Doesn’t always work as the course my S struggled in was only taught be one prof. Still I applaud the resourcefulness.</p>
<p>Similarly, emswim, thank you for sharing your experience. I have a feeling that panic/anxiety, or simply some erosion of confidence after maybe poor grades on some tests/quizzes,… could be the problem in a number of cases.
Good for you for trying the counseling and congrats on the successful results.</p>
<p>katliamom, most schools have multiple sections of a basic course like Calc II, with different instructors. My 1200-student LAC had at least three the semester I took it. If her schedule allows it, she might consider crashing other teachers’ sections. If she finds one who explains the material in a way that she understands better, she could attend that teacher’s lectures as well as her own. (Most teachers don’t mind an extra face unless the class is tiny, and even if it’s tiny, telling the teacher that he’s brilliant and he’s the only one among his colleagues who’s able to explain the material may result in an unofficial welcome.)</p>
<p>Hanna – that would work during the regular session, but this is summer session, so there is only one section - the one she’s in. Also, the class is called ‘Calculus for Engineers’ – which she isn’t! (Premed.) She decided to take this class because she’s trying to make up a semester she lost when she got mono & had to withdraw. And this is a prerequisite for some of the more advanced science classes in her major, so waiting to take it in the fall would set her back even more… I AM encouraging her to talk to the professor so he knows she’s one of the very few non-engineers in the class. We’ll see if she takes my advice – but I’m not holding my breath. I’m a mom. What do I know, right ?</p>
<p>Oh, that’s a shame. I had a fantastic calculus professor, one of the great teachers I have known. She missed class for a couple of days and one of her colleagues (another professor, not a TA) took over the class. During those two days, I couldn’t keep my mind on the lecture or follow any of his logic, even though I was acing the course overall. It made me realize how critical that professor was to my success and enjoyment of the class, and I passed up the chance to move to a better humanities class because it conflicted with her calculus section. It was luck that I ended up with her, but I wouldn’t have left that section for love or money!</p>
<p>Sadly, she’s no longer teaching, though she’s still helping students:</p>
<p>There may not be a huge difference other than more application work. Our daughter’s community college offers a few flavors of calculus including one called Calculus for Science but it would also transfer in to the local university as the prereq for science or engineering programs.</p>
<p>The best calculus I professor at my son’s university teaches five or six sections of it per semester. I imagine that he gives the same lecture five or six times a day. There are usually more complaints about the professors that do research. RateMyProfessor is usually pretty good when you have a lot of choices for professors.</p>
?</p>