<p>I’m guessing the poster was trying to make the point that to do a double degree it is much easier just to go to a university rather than commute back and forth between two schools. I had friends do that for undergrad at Eastman and they were miserable with the set up. and thats Eastman! (only 15-20 commute) I had another friend who did the NEC-Harvard program and eventually settled in to Harvard permanently. Its certainly not the right thing for everyone, but it is also not right to make generalizations about what people want or are capable of. ;)</p>
<p>Adding to musicprnt’s very wise comment about the “grain of salt”: also take note that often responses come from starry-eyed newly accepted students who are viewing programs through the commercial eyes of the admissions office! This isn’t to say that they might not be right, but often time tempers enthusiasm! What works for one may not work for another, even within the same program. I’ve seen kids change their academic major (within a dual-degree with a BM program) when they find that their initial choice didn’t work logistically. Their response in one year would have been very different from the latter.
This whole business of “ranking” music schools or saying that " these 5 are the BEST" is silly; you can’t compare a major in oboe to one in composition or voice. Look at school web sites, talk to students and teachers and make personal visits to gain all the knowledge you can.</p>
<p>On this thread no one’s ranked anything? Or atleast I am not asking for ranks? </p>
<p>On a side note, what do you guys think of going to an academic institution and recieving private lessons rather than going to music school? I would apply to a masters after of course, but would it give me the right and enough training?</p>
<p>You might want to look into Eastman at the U. of Rochester. The dual degree is difficult but I understand it is a bit easier for vocalists than for instrumentalists. The schools are in different locations, but a shuttle runs between them. You have the option of living on either campus.</p>
<p>limcba21: What type of graduate program would you apply for: one in music or one in a non-music discipline?</p>
<p>If you intend to pursue graduate work in music, then yes, private lessons with plenty of practice and talent could situate you adequately for admission. It would be helpful if you could take as much music theory as possible in your undergraduate degree so that you would have less of a deficiency to make up in your graduate program. </p>
<p>So to be clear: graduate programs in music performance rarely require any specific type of undergraduate degree; they merely require a high level of performing skills. An adequately high level can be achieved by talented and diligent students who study privately during their undergrad degree with an excellent university instructor.</p>
<p>A word of caution: most students that undertake this route (non-music major in undergrad combined with private music study with graduate music intentions) do not make it to the end of the route; they usually are not disciplined enough to spend sufficient practice time when academic demands are high or strong enough academically to allow for three or four hours of practice per day or strong enough musically to make adequate progress. I am clearly not suggesting that you lack the character or ability (since I do not know you). </p>
<p>This route generally is least successful for violin and piano because those instruments require huge amounts of practice time and most successful for voice and instruments like trumpet that require relatively little practice time (because the voice/instrument just won’t allow 4 to 8 hours per day).</p>
<p>A word of caution: if you are applying for a graduate performance degree, you’ll have to make up the music theory and music theory that are required at the school, usually for no credit and in a constrained period of time. If you’re a VP major, you’ll have the additional burden of languages and diction classes.
Shennie, I wouldn’t be too sure about that! Yes, vocalists can’t practice as much as instrumentalists and usually don’t have as many ensemble commitments (ESM does have choral requirements though), but they have more required subjects when you include several languages and diction classes, opera workshop, pedagogy etc. It’s a lot of work for everyone…
Most music majors choosing to live on campus use the Eastman dorm because of the very close proximity to the conservatory building and the facilities in the dorm itself which make it easier in those upstate NY winters! The campuses do co-operate though by staggering their classes, those on one campus beginning on the hour and in the other location on the half hour, which allows the shuttle bus to make its run. My D’s best friend attends the U of R and takes lessons at Eastman and when you factor in the wait to get the shuttle and the trip and all, it takes her about an hour to get from the River Campus to the conservatory, and then there’s the trip back again. Luckily, there is a great coffee shop a few doors down from the music school which gets a lot of business from the students!</p>
<p>as many posters have noted, the challenges of doing a double degree program vary enormously from school to school, and also from studio to studio (some teachers are very, very supportive, others absolutely forbid it) This is one of the rare areas where statistics are truly helpful: How many students at X university do a double degree? And conversations with individual teachers will be helpful in advance.
As many have already noted, you should absolutely count 5 years to complete a BM and BA double program. The rare students who do this in 4 years are often quite burned out from the experience. Also keep in mind that a BM is very very oftened followed by a MM program, so requires some extra time set aside in year 4 or 5 for auditions.
As a PS: we can report that UMich is a very happy place for doluble degree instrumental students! Voice students have a tough because of language requirements.</p>
<p>OP - I agree with most of the recommendations made previously. My son was looking four years ago for almost exactly what you are looking for now. He applied to Northwestern, Michigan, USC, Rice, Colorado and the joint degree programs at Hopkins/Peabody, NEC/Tufts and NEC/Harvard. Oberlin and Lawrence are both good schools, but they were too small and to “out of the way” for him. Understand, that in any of these schools, you must get accepted by both the school and the music department/school to work a dual degree/double major. Very few people are accepted these dual programs.</p>
<p>My son was accepted at several of these schools, but was waitlisted at NEC (which meant that he had virtually no chance of being accepted into the dual degree program with Tufts or Harvard). The Harvard/NEC program gets you a BA from Harvard after four years, followed by a MM from NEC. With Tufts, you get a BA from Tufts and a BM from NEC after the same time. Ultimately, he went to Harvard, where he continued to sing in several vocal groups, one of which (Harvard University Choir) provides voice lessons for free. His roommate was accepted to the NEC/Harvard dual degree program and he takes classes at Harvard and lessons at NEC. Essentially, my son is getting the same thing through the University Choir, is not commuting to NEC, is getting the free lessons (lessons at NEC cost some additional money) and he is is being paid to sing. He is a dual concentrator (dual major) in music and linguistics, so he is getting the theory part of an advanced degree out of the way. He could have applied to NEC in his junior year to be admitted to the program, but he elected not to. He will not be automatically admitted to NEC for the masters program, but then again, he is not committed to going to NEC for his masters.</p>
<p>limcba-
One poster made a claim that school X was the best music school, etc, that is what I was commenting on, not your original request, your question was a good one, looking for information. </p>
<p>Others about going the academic route ug and studying private pretty much covered the territory I would, it is definitely doable, but there are caveats to it. It is kind of like the high level student at a not so high level program, if they are self motivated, have a good teacher, then the level of the other students may not be an issue; but if they are someone who needs to be around ‘competition’ in the sense of seeing other better then themselves, then going to a ‘lesser’ program might work against them. If someone has the discipline to study with a private teacher, to probably learn music theory and so forth, practice rigorously then there is no technical obstacle to them getting an MM (as opposed to simply being good enough:)</p>
<p>I might start a new thread for this but I’ll ask here too:
Is the U.S. the best place to get Classical Voice Perfomance education in English? My parents, friends, and teachers have also mentioned maybe looking into school in Europe, specifically England? I’m not asking whether one school is better than another, because that’s subjective. However, would an education at Royal Academy or the Royal College be the same standard than one from say Curtis, NEC, Eastman, or the Manhattan School?</p>
<p>You might want to consider Canada for classical voice performance in English. Of the 8 finalists in the 2011 Met Auditions, 2 trained in Montreal (which is more than NYC or any of the other US cities).</p>
<p>@limba21- please do start a new thread since this is off of the original topic and you’ll get more replies that way. I will reserve my answers until then.</p>