Actually I’m guessing that for this engineering firm this was a small project…and this got shuffled to the back burner.
They keep telling me that it is a very complex project. Today I took in the comments and plans from the City. I begged for a turnaround commitment. They said they needed to look through comments and they would get back to me. I said I was going to make an appt to return to the City for June 2nd. That gives them 1 1/2 weeks to fix everything.
So they wouldn’t even commit to a timeframe for telling you when they’re going to commit to a timeframe!
No, they would not commit. But, I gave them a generous deadline so they had better get it all done.
Then they proceeded to tell me that I should fight the fire sprinkler requirement. Just walk in there and tell them I’m not going to do it. I went thorugh the square footage in the plans and came up with numbers that support the City’s decision. So I sent the numbers to the engineer and asked him how I could frame my argument to the City. We’ll see if he bothers to send me a reply.
I received two samples from the folding door company for vinyl color and aluminum color. It is a $1,500 decision I need to make between the two. I loaded some pictures to the Flickr group, but they aren’t really showing the true color of the vinyl. The vinyl color is like Sand, luckily it is not a yellowish almond ivory color, but more of a greyish beige. It matches the tan windows getting installed on the other side of the house, but the west side of the house is going to have all dark bronze windows.
There are going to be 4 folding panels in this door. My concern is that the black panel edges will ‘break up’ the view and that the beige vinyl might blend in to the eye and not break up the view out of the family room.
Consider how each will look not only looking at the view during the daytime but also when it’s dark outside and the lights are on inside.
I am always amazed at how many little decisions there are. I can’t wait to see how it comes together.
Just spoke to two fire sprinkler design companies. I had read the municipal code that fire sprinklers have to be installed in the new addition portion of the house. They are insisting that I am required to sprinkler the entire house. This is very upsetting to me because I cannot imagine how they are going to install fire sprinklers in the gorgeous living room ceiling. He started saying… Well, we take the roof off and try to … I stopped him right there. Not taking the roof off. So, his answer was that they will have to run copper water lines across the beautiful open beams to put in sprinkler heads. There has got to be a way to stop this nonsense… I just cannot imagine ruining the aesthetics of the living room ceiling.
To a man with a sprinkler design company, every problem looks like … an opportunity to sell more sprinklers.
I’d wait to see what the City says, and try to negotiate with the City, before getting too bent out of shape by what a sprinkler salesman is telling you. (I’m assuming these folks install the sprinklers as well as design the systems?)
What if you didn’t update the basement or turn it into finished space? Would that get you out of the sprinkler requirements?
The main issue is that it doesn’t seem to matter if an area is ‘liveable’ or not. It doesn’t seem to matter whether the basement and/or old garage are drywalled, heated or whatever. All they care about is total floor space. So, my problem is that they are counting the unfinished basement, old garage and new garage as ‘floor space’. This adds 1,500 sq ft to the overall square footage count, tipping me over the threshold of 3,600 square feet. Even though I am only adding 1,200 square foot of liveable space to the value of the property, they are counting the new garage addition and the decks/balconies on 2nd story as more floor space as part of the addition. The garage, 2nd floor deck and 2nd floor balcony do not count as ‘liveable’ square footage when I go to sell the house.
Bottom line, City calculated about 4,200 square feet floor space and I can only sell the house as about 2,900 sq ft house.
One of the fire sprinkler designers said ‘most people reduce their addition and resubmit plans to avoid fire sprinkler requirements’. I have no idea how I am going to do that. It would mean that my addition would have to reduced to about 1300 sq ft, including the garage. Garage alone is about 500 square feet in order to meet building code requirements and include an interior staircase to main floor. Plus I have to put something on first floor at 500 square feet in order to get up to a 2nd story. 2nd story would have to be limited to a tiny family room and/or master suite only.
How many sprinkler heads do you need in the living room?
It looks like there is basement space under the living room… so open up a wall cavity, run the pipes inside a wall up to the ceiling from the basement, then run them along the corner formed by the beam and the ceiling to get to the center of the room. Put them on the side that is not visible from the kitchen, and paint the pipes to match the wood.
They will be virtually invisible, and after 5 minutes your eyes will stop seeing them anyway.
Are you putting a pergola or some type of covering over the deck? Why would they count areas without a ceiling?
cb, have you actually seen the statute that says they count unlivable space in their calculation? If I were you, I’d ask one of the city people to please show it to you.
As best I can tell, garages etc are definitely included in the regulation, as are recessed decks.
This section discusses exclusions for sprinklers. Unfortunately lovely living room ceilings are not included. I did run into discussions about the effectiveness of heat activated sprinklers on vaulted ceilings and two story foyers, i.e. slow response time.
R313.3.1.1 Required sprinkler locations. Sprinklers shall be installed to protect all areas of a dwelling unit. Exceptions:
- Attics, crawl spaces and normally unoccupied concealed spaces that do not contain fuel-fired appliances do not require sprinklers. In attics, crawl spaces and normally unoccupied concealed spaces that contain fuel-fired equipment, a sprinkler shall be installed above the equipment; however, sprinklers shall not be required in the remainder of the space.
- Clothes closets, linen closets and pantries not exceeding 24 square feet (2.2 m2) in area, with the smallest dimension not greater than 3 feet (915 mm) and having wall and ceiling surfaces of gypsum board.
- Bathrooms not more than 55 square feet (5.1m2) in area.
- Detached garages; carports with no habitable space above; open attached porches; unheated entry areas, such as mud rooms, that are adjacent to an exterior door; and similar areas.
There’s no space between the structure behind the plaster of the ceiling–I’m assuming it’s plaster–and the roof?
In the living room the ceiling is all wood. There’s no plaster at all.
It looks like the roof is laid right on top of the ceiling wood, there probably isn’t a gap where you could run a pipe.
How is the wiring for the light being done? Surface mount? Or is that already wired?
Seems to me there has to be some space there to accommodate the wiring for the ceiling light.
I hadn’t looked at the pictures in a while and was hallucinating a plaster ceiling with beams! Thanks, @notrichenough.
Good point regarding the chandelier. There was one there before…just looked at the photo. Don’t see any visible wires.
Marilyn is correct, code requires all floor space to be sprinklered, including the dang attic where im hiding two gas furnaces!! Probably upstairs deck also.
I called the senior guy at City and he reviewed with me. He encouraged me to request an appt for a 2nd opinion so i left a voicemail apot request.
According to city engineer i can put sprinklers on side walls in living room if i want to. Or i can spend a year getting house designated historical. I see some big dollar signs in my future.
Meanwhile, dumpster didnt show up today as scheduled and porta pottie didn’t show up. Demo crew fiddling around at this point and i had to give in and let the guys into the new Women Only hall bathroom.
The chandelier wiring is inside the massive beam. It took a lot of soap and grease for electrician to pull new wires tthrough it