<p>I don’t see a Murder 2 conviction happening yet either. And yes, they both might have overreacted. I happen to place a greater burden of appropriate behavior on the adult in any situation, not the child. GZ also had TIME to think about his actions, as he was always watching for behavior that might be suspicious. TM had no such awareness that the little neighborhood he was visiting harbored such danger for him, and was caught off guard by the CAC who was following him for no apparent reason. So I think there is a difference in the level of “intent” between the two. Does that make sense?</p>
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<p>JAM…creepy by itself might not be so inflammatory…but creepy-a** cracker is a far different animal.</p>
<p>It just goes to what (in my mind) is the pivotal aspect of this whole trial. Everything I’ve seen and heard presented so far can be viewed from multiple perspectives, and that quite probably is going to equal reasonable doubt in at least some of the jurors minds.</p>
<p>Supposedly Martin’s mother will testify on Friday. I just don’t see how this can happen given that she has been in the courtroom and listened to the testimony of other witnesses that included testimony of the screams. Usually when witnesses are excluded form the courtroom all witnesses are excluded. I don’t know why there would be an exception for Martin’s mother. Zimmerman’s father will testify and he has been excluded from the courtroom.</p>
<p>Well, one thing’s for sure. The women on the jury are going to know that this kid was scared of being followed at night.</p>
<p>If any of them have children, they are going to be horrified by Zimmerman’s interview with that Hannity guy. That’s for sure.</p>
<p>And, women don’t look at chasing someone down as inadvertently “ending up” in a fight. </p>
<p>So, we will see.</p>
<p>It won’t help Zimmerman’s case when Trayvon’s mother testifies. I don’t know how many of those jurors have kids, but the ones who do will know they would know their own kid’s scream on a tape.</p>
<p>I really hope he doesn’t get away with this. He sits at that table like he’s an attorney and not a defendant. He leans back in his chair. He is unbelievably arrogant and remorseless.</p>
<p>He is still a danger to society.</p>
<p>Wolverine, with all due respect…it sounds to me as though you are applying YOUR language preferences to TM’s. You wish he had said “some guy” instead of “some CAC.” But that is not how TM would have talked, especially to a peer. As I said in answer to your earlier post, to me being open-minded means understanding how different people talk (not just TM but his friend Rachel Jeantel, among others). Judging someone’s intentions based on a private phone conversation when you don’t have any context seems pretty risky, IMO.</p>
<p>P.S. Every time I hear the expression CAC I think of the line in the song “Thrift Shop”–“that’s a cold-ass honky.” It’s actually meant as a compliment. :)</p>
<p>hope when GZ’s father testifies he shows his true colors and gives them a hateful rant straight out of his e-book.that will only help the jury to see the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree</p>
<p>and for all the focus on Trayvon’s use of CAC, remember he also called GZ another name. so one canceled out the other;) In my view both were language he (and many teens) would likely use among friends, you know in safe company, on a private phone conversation, to express his concern. if he had said all CACs deserve to be hurt/messed with, you might have something, but his language was unattached to any negative thought. GZ’s f—n punk comment was attached to his world view that “they always get away” and by his pursuing TM we see that told us a lot about his state of mind.</p>
<p>sally…Yes, I can see where you’re coming from. The adult in the situation should have a bigger burden of acting responsibly, and he didn’t. But as we’ve discussed before, what that means in a court of law versus the court of public opinion or the court of morality are very different.</p>
<p>This whole mess is tragic, first and foremost from the death of a 17 year old. It’s also becoming fairly apparent (unfortunately) that the real truth of what happened that night is never going to be known. Some are convinced they “know” what happened and why it happened, but certainty is not likely to come in this case.</p>
<p>If we can’t be certain of what happened, there’s no way to know if justice will be served…regardless of what the verdict is. There will be plenty of folks unhappy with the outcome no matter what it is.</p>
<p>As hard as it was for me to swallow the Casey Anthony verdict, my faith comforts me in the knowledge that eventually she will pay for what I believe she did…and if she was actually innocent that will bear out as well. It may come down to the same conclusion in this case.</p>
<p>ETA: sally…I don’t think being a teenager is a valid reason for using CAC, and I wouldn’t excuse it any more than I’d excuse GZ using F’in Punk. My kids are teens and I’ve overheard their conversations as well…and I haven’t heard that term. Creepy dude maybe…but “cracker”? Come on. They’re both derogatory terms, and intentionally so IMO.</p>
<p>zoosermom: “I am watching the interview. I had no strong opinion either way. I still am open to the facts of the event leading to a not guilty verdict, but it is clear how he came to be in that situation based on his personality . He really is a horse’s butt.” </p>
<p>That interview was really something. I still find it hard to believe that O’Mara allowed it, given how damaging it is to his client. At the time, I wondered whether he was competent, but from what I’ve seen of the trial, he is doing a very good job.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, we don’t have any interviews with Trayvon to watch, to get an idea of his character. There is this interview with his brother:</p>
<p>[Jahvaris</a> Fulton admits he doesn’t know if it was Trayvon screaming - YouTube](<a href=“Jahvaris Fulton admits he doesn't know if it was Trayvon screaming - YouTube”>Jahvaris Fulton admits he doesn't know if it was Trayvon screaming - YouTube)</p>
<p>Given that, and the dignified and stoic behavior of Trayvon’s parents over this past 16 months, it’s hard to believe that Trayvon was a violent thug with a hair-trigger temper.</p>
<p>Wolverine, I agree with much of your post above. Thank you.</p>
<p>(If you’re gonna ETA after I’ve agreed with you, I am too.)</p>
<p>I don’t especially like the term CAC but what my kids say to their friends is not something I can control. I don’t THINK they use language like that but I can’t be sure and don’t want to start eavesdropping to find out.</p>
<p>rip: “I’m not sure what white-Hispanic is, but to fit the narrative, white had to be in the description.”</p>
<p>There is such a thing as a white Hispanic, by US government definitions. If you do government-sponsored research involving humans, you must fill out a table on the racial/ethnic composition of the subjects. Those are two different tables, both of which must include everyone. So each person is categorized by race (white, black, asian, etc.) and by ethnicity (Hispanic, nonHispanic). I would be a white, nonHispanic, while Zimmerman would be a white Hispanic.</p>
<p>I like para#1 of post 1786. I guess an open minded person could substitute “friend Rachel” for “gz’s father” and switch “facebook” for “e-book”.
That is, if it’s true as another poster said long ago, that “birds of a feather…”</p>
<p>NYmomof2, if there are white Hispanics, are there white blacks, white asians, white indians, etc?</p>
<p>NYMomof2–thanks for your post, I attempted to discuss the difference between race and ethnicity early on but it wasn’t accepted.</p>
<p>First time I saw that interview with Trayvon’s brother. Made me cry, poor kid lost his little brother and struggles with whether to stay in college. He had NO anger, or hostility and this interview was BEFORE GZ was even arrested. I think others should take a look at this young man’s maturity and composure.</p>
<p>
Because there is a specific law in Florida that allows the immediate family (“next of Kin”) of homicide victims to attend all phases of the trial. See [Law</a> of Self Defense ? FL 960.001?Guidelines for fair treatment of victims and witnesses in the criminal justice and juvenile justice systems.](<a href=“http://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/fl-960-001 guidelines-for-fair-treatment-of-victims-and-witnesses-in-the-criminal-justice-and-juvenile-justice-systems/]Law”>FL 960.001 Guidelines for fair treatment of victims and witnesses in the criminal justice and juvenile justice systems. – Law of Self Defense)</p>
<p>Trayvon Martin is the VICTIM. He is not on trial. This isn’t something to be determined after the course of the trial – the fact that he is dead and the cause of death was determined to be homicide entitles him to automatic victimhood status.</p>
<p>George Zimmerman is the defendant, charged with a crime. In the end he may be acquitted, but until then he is in the courtroom and is the person on trial. Because he is the defendant, he also has the personal right to observe all stages of the proceedings, even if that will end up influencing his own testimony. But his parents, friend, brother, etc. do not have any special status. </p>
<p>That’s what happens when there is a confrontation and one person ends up dead and another person is determined to have been the killer. The killer’s family have a different legal status than the dead person’s family.</p>
<p>thank you, thank you, thank you calmom. you make this thread tolerable.</p>
<p>The term CAC used by TM was language used in a private conversation with his closed friend. The intent might be derogatory or it could just be terms that they used often amongst closed friends. Many kids used slang and bad words as a way to kid around and making intimate small talks. OTH, Zimmerman words were said to a police official on a recorded call, not to an acquaintance. Context is very important here.</p>
<p>calmom, </p>
<p>can I ask you, as a defense attorney, would you allow your client to lean back in his chair with his arm draped over the back, wearing the same kind of purple tie and shirt as the attorneys?</p>
<p>I know that’s a weird question, but it bugs me about Zimmerman, for some reason.</p>
<p>riprorin, have you ever been to the Caribbean or Latin America? Yes, there are black and white Hispanics.</p>
<p>riproran: "NYmomof2, if there are white Hispanics, are there white blacks, white asians, white indians, etc? "</p>
<p>No, of course not. Read my post. Pay attention.</p>
<p>Why “of course not”?</p>