So a full ride scholarship is not longer sufficient? Colleges are now expected to sponsor the rest of the family too? Where does it end?
@hebegebe, I didn’t intend to say that colleges should correct this problem. I just meant to say that I can sympathize with those who face it, just as I could sympathize with the situation of one of my own college classmates – quite possibly the poorest student at our entire university (as well as one of the most brilliant), who could not afford warm enough clothing to be comfortable in the winter despite working the maximum number of allowed hours at her on-campus job and working full-time during the summer. I suspect that some of the money she earned went to her family, who needed it for basic things like food.
So kids get admitted to elite colleges and graduate from elite colleges while being academically incredibly deficient? I am thinking not.
I only have one frame of reference as it relates to an elite college, the one that our daughter attends. Harvard has workshops, and labs and tutors and Personal advising fellows and on and on and on to assist students who are having difficulty. The resources are there.
Kids do flunk out of Harvard, kids do go on academic probation. They are not just carried along if they are incapable of doing the work.
A couple of the big outside scholarships offer full rides; none of the ivies do. All kids, even homeless orphans, are expected to come up with $3-6K per year, depending on the Ivy. It’s called the student contribution and every Ivy has it.
^^^ Useful correction. Thank you.
Would many of these students be Pell grant eligible? Beyond that there is work study and other on and off campus jobs, the Federal student loan program, Summer jobs etc.
It’s entirely valid to look at whether the low income students are being given a real chance to succeed at elite universities - and encourage universities to provide the financial aid and other support to make this possible.
But some of the elites are already doing a great deal. The one we are familiar with has meals provided on campus for those staying during all breaks except the three weeks over Christmas. Even then students are permitted to stay on campus and there is additional financial aid for those that do to provide food (which can be cooked in the share kitchens).
Yes even students on financial aid must cover about $3000 from their own earnings. But this $3000 is not paid to the university but is for the students’ books, incidentals and social life and the elite u provides jobs for the students to earn this money.
One thing to consider is that the students in question might not have a very clear idea of the reality of their classmates lives and might be judging themselves more harshly than they should. I attended a pretty well ranked mid size research institution that no one from my small town school had ever even applied to. I knew my academic background was weak and that I was a hick. For a year or two I overestimated my fellow students’ academic abilities and social experience. I can remember second guessing myself constantly and probably overestimating how comfortable everyone else was socially. Eventually I found a group of friends to really compare experiences with and I figured out that we really weren’t all that different, but it took awhile. It is hard for an 18 year old to walk into an elite university and pretty much assume that they are at the bottom of every measure. Later I was a grad student at Yale and I had a terrible time trying to get some of my students to even come ask for help. I think they were afraid that that would confirm “everyone’s” opinion that they didn’t belong there.
From my experience, there are ALWAYS ways to get extra money if you would like. One untapped resource participation in research studies. Those signs and flyers are literally everywhere, practically begging people to participate. All you have to do is show up, participate and get money. Boom. That’s it. Sometimes there even willing to pay several hundred dollars for participation. That, in addition to work study can go a long way.
@GreatKid , I am not trying to pick a fight, I am just going by the words you wrote, some of which I also quoted. We can drop this if you want but unless you tell me you mis-spoke then I have to go by your words and we will leave it there.
OK @Eagledad33 , that’s clear. I guess once you get financial aid you should have no more financial problems of any kind then. And I assume that is proportional to the amount of financial aid you receive?
We’re talking about people here. Kids. Firstly, I don think that this is a big problem. Secondly, I think anyone who would have problems with the kids in the article – and some were expressed here with vitriol – might have other issues that are shining through.
I am making a point and calling it as I see it. I’m also suggesting the posters in question might not realize how their post sounded and I asked them to reconsider that. This is a forum for discussion, after all, and I always try to be polite in my disagreements, even when I am offended.
@CaliCash . Interesting that you mentioned that. Whenever I have time to kill on my daughter’s campus I read poster boards and usually amazed with all these studies offers. They way these ads are worded it seems nobody needs money on this campus. They pretty much beg you to participate.
I think college is never exactly what you imagined as a high schooler. People make decisions all the time based on cost. Some families have more money than others and can send their kids anywhere they want to go, some need to pursue merit or need based aid, some families will contribute up to instate cost, some families can’t or won’t pay a dime . I really don’t see a problem with a full need kid , according to FAFSA, being expected to contribute a minimal amount to their educations. I think it’s always been typical for kids from less wealthy families to have to worry more about expenses, think twice about whether or not you really need that pizza when you already ate at the dining hall. This is nothing new. If anything, resources seem to have gotten better for poor or middle class kids even over the last decade or so. Lots of programs to pull more kids into college than yeas ago.
Basically if you are on full finaid at a meet full need without loan school and have financial difficulties you can always take a subsidized loan. Graduating from such school with a 10-15k loan is not a big deal.
^ That is what I am thinking. Problem solved. Hard to believe a kid couldn’t figure out a way to feed him/herself during those few days when dining halls are closed.
If that’s your opinion, that’s an odd one. You can see that I said nothing of the sort.
To me, the point is that once an Ivy gives a full ride as the article calls it, they’ve done a fantastic thing, the students should be incredibly grateful, and we should have nothing to feel sorry for them college funding wise.
Beyond that, sure it’s fine to feel sympathy for families with little means, but the state of families back home is only loosely relevant to this forum. And it’s not like the college should be expected to provide for the students family.
From a financial perspective alone, S1 was admitted on full merit to a public college in NYC.
Was more expensive to go there than zero scholarship at a rural public school, due to cost of living.
He transferred to an Ivy, paying tution now, but from what I see, there are a very wide variety of socioeconomics at his new school, from rural poor to very wealthy. He is under no pressure to be a big spender at the Ivy.
I must have misunderstood this then:
[quote]
I certainly would have no sympathy for any financial part of their college experience once given a “full ride” as discussed in the article.
[quote]
I went back and read the article again after reading all the posts. The point of the article is that there are expenses the poor students doesn’t know about. The are told they are getting a full ride without loans and they learn that there are expenses that aren’t covered. Not one student interviewed is ungrateful for the opportunity or for the money they do receive. The schools seem to be very responsive when made aware of an issue such as closed dining halls during breaks (open the on campus dining halls or give meal vouchers), provide funds for joining social or athletic clubs, have emergency funds available.
I don’t think the extra costs that arise are unique to poor students, they just don’t have the resources other kids might have to solve the problems of a broken laptop or lost phone. These students can’t borrow the money from a parent or use a credit card to get them to the end of the semester. I really don’t think it is any different than my kids heading off to school and suddenly they learn that they have to pay for toothpaste and pizzas at midnight when those things were just THERE when they lived at home
They are doing all the things that have been suggested in this thread - having a job, taking the Stafford loans, going to the museum on free days, buying used books, skipping Starbucks. I read the article, as the headline read, that it is not the free ride they expected because they were told everything was covered except their $2000 contribution. .
I also did not find those interviewed for the article to be bitter or complaining, just pointing out what they deal with because a reporter asked. It is never easy to ask for help and it seems the students do what they can to solve their needs without asking for more money, free meals, or books. They are young, they are learning how to budget their money. My daughter had the freshman meal plan of 3+ meal per day and never had to worry about the next meal. As a sophomore elected a cheaper plan (saved $1000) but had to manage the points and she ran out before the end of the semester. Not unique to poor students, not unique to the Ivy league.
Actually you can’t since your need has been met, presumably, by the FA package (which may or may not include loans but usually doesn’t for the poorest kids at Ivies). But you can take an unsubsidized loan if it isn’t part of your package already.
^ this, once more for the peanut gallery.