Funny though that no one can answer my basic question. What do they mean “too white”. And majority vs minority issues aside. Would that be ok to write about any other race in our country. I hope not.
And I still don’t know what it means.
They’re a big and important newspaper. They have to be indicating something that applies to all white people, generically but it escapes me. It really does. There are so many cultures within the basic profile as white, is there a genetic white thing we all do that makes blog posts about frugal living unreadable.
I do think the point of the article was that even if women can’t go all in in the FIRE movement, they can still practice that financial program but adjust it for their needs. Have to support aging parents? Okay, it may take you a few extra years to hit your retirement number. While a single man might be able to save 80% of his income, a single mother may not have those options.
I’m glad my daughter does have her dog even though she costs a lot. Not only is there food and vet bills, there is an extra charge for her apartment, there are doggie toys and obedience school, and there is the cost of taking the dog on vacation. It’s a spoiled dog.
If it takes an extra year or so to get to her first million, she’ll be happier when she gets there.
I retired at 40 and over the years have read several FIRE websites, blogs. Ultimately, you need to live below your means no matter your income, gender, or race.
Many say this is not possible (and for a few, it is not) but oftentimes they somehow manage to get by with the salary from their first job yet when they receive raises over the years are still unable to save.
Sending baby away to grandparents often a cultural or family thing. I know a number of folks who have done this. Kids grew up just fine and are as attached to their parents as ever. I was separated from parents as a toddler have no memory of it as a long term separation.
My college class has a lot of very successful women. They disproportionately are single now at or close to retirement, and have no kids. Most are divorced. They chose between career and family.
I thought this thread was going to be about FIRE. https://www.thefire.org/ It’s pretty white and somewhat bro-ish, although it does have a number of women in management jobs just below the top layer.
I wholeheartedly agree. Spending is easy. Saving takes discipline.
I’m not sure I agree. I think more people are embracing the “FI” in FIRE. I actually attribute some of the FIRE interest to coping with financial stress from those events…with early retirement a possible “carrot”. I admit I could be way off base because although my DH and I retired in our 40s (no inheritance, no lottery win, modest upbringings), FIRE wasn’t our goal.
We had FIRE-like behavior, because we didn’t have a lot and we wanted to save for a house, a future where I could stay at home while the kids were little and also save for college costs for them…which btw, we expected to increase a tremendous amount, because there were lots of articles predicting it.
As for teaching our kids to save but stay in top employability shape, I agree. There are no guarantees.
While I understand this sentiment, I guess when I read an article where the behavior seems extreme, I don’t feel the need to duplicate that person’s choices. I do consider if maybe there is an idea or two that might work for me that I had never considered. We can learn from others experiences.
When it comes to frugal living, I believe one of the key things is finding joy/happiness without having to spend a lot of money. Spending money on indulgent activities or things can be a lot of fun. But if you are able to have a lot of fun without needing the material things…without comparing your fun to someone else’s idea of fun…you win in the long run.
Lastly, I didn’t read the title of the article as an attack on white males. I see it as an attempt to draw attention with hyperbole. The title clearly qualifies the statement with “For these women”. In other words they’re addressing the sometimes myopic coverage of FIRE and they feel excluded from the conversation. When a group seeks representation, a voice, a seat at the table, I’m not threatened by it. Others may fear it.
Yes, the FI part is what is important, but there are plenty of other blogs and sites that focus on savings and being debt-free, many have been around for quite a while. It is the bloggers that preach RE aspect that will evaporate when the market tanks, IMO.
Retiring early is tricky. “When the market tanks” would definitely make most people pause and reevaluate. However if a person/couple/family has eliminated debt and adapted to a FIRE existence, I can also see some being able to ride out a financial hit. We did.
Also, isn’t blogging by nature transitory? It’s often just a matter of time for something that is “in” to go “out”.
There is a guy into FIRE who is on Motley Fool Money (podcast) as a guest sometimes. He is… bro-ey. He got married recently, and I got the impression that maybe his wife isn’t quite as onboard with FIRE. (Made me wonder if they will make it as a couple)
There isn’t some kind of virtue in “living frugally”. It seems like people who see themselves as doing so want to at least be seen as virtuous, like monks or nuns in convents or something. There also isn’t something sinful or non-virtuous about not living like a monk.
@88jm19 I am in no way threatened or in fear lol. I just prefer a society and social activism that addressed things with a certain level of consistency.
If we are to move away from race and gender as memes and monoliths, which they are not, all types of stereotyping should be seen as in really poor taste.
I just don’t think that righteous indignation is that righteous if it comes with a “it depends” - on what person or fellow human is being marginalized.
It also gives bozos unnecessary ammo to demonstrate hypocrisy.
However if everyone here thinks that a headline in Breitbart saying that a program is “too Black and too female, for some men” is ok. Or some men find something “too Asian and too transgendered” Then I will stand corrected. Honestly. Yet , I don’t even know what a headline like those even mean? How is something too much of a race. It makes no sense. I can’t imagine a civil conversation with someone asking if they heard of the fire program. And they say I’m not doing that “that fire burns too Latino”. They would be seriously on the outs with people I know. And we wouldn’t know what the heck they meant either.
I don’t think “the some women” softens it at all.
I still haven’t had one poster explain to me what it means to be “too white”.
Meaning less white people should be in the program? White people spoil the program? Shouldn’t post to blogs because they are white? How do we even know? Do they make it less fun to save money because they are white ?. Is it less effective because too many caucasians are trying it ?
there’s an awful lot of white people in the world and I didn’t know they all act and interact the same way, uniformly.
It just seems like no one should be fair game for race and gender knocks like this one, if we want to eliminate that type of hyperbole.
This is a newspaper that some white people read right ?
@privatebanker Please relax. This was not an attack on white people. (I am one). Sometimes it’s okay to be reminded we’re not the default. If you don’t identify with the article, you can just move on. It’s really okay.
But why can’t a single person answer the question? On CC, it’s odd. Instead of explaining the context or intent of what it means to people out there to be “too white” people tell me to move on. Which is another way of simply not answering.
It bothers me at the edges. But not anything more than annoying. The fact it doesn’t bother you is ok.
But I’ll respect your opinion. However, Being told to relax when I am completely chill is odd. I have questions. But no heat to this “fire”.
It’s my impression of the article and the writers needing to be a bit more careful.
@garland It’s is ok. Hard to see emotion or not in a post. I’m actually kind of interested. But I do think the NYT is getting very sloppy with their headlines at times.
@sylvan8798 Virtuous/Sinful is your connotation, not mine. I just feel people can learn from each other. I’m sorry if you took my post in an unintended way. And please, “living frugally” doesn’t have to mean living like monks and nuns. You may define it that way, but I don’t. I guess we differ here.
@privatebanker I also prefer a society and social activism that address things with a certain level of consistency. Unfortunately the world is made up of people with different standards of behavior and different tolerance levels. Personally, I choose not to be triggered by every article. There’s just too much division and I accept that I cannot control or hold everyone else to that standard.
I tell myself: I won’t take the bait. I won’t be manipulated.
I believe people are generally good. I use my judgment as to when I want to use my voice and how I use it. We all pick our own battles. In this case I feel it was less a shot at white males…and more of a “hey, don’t forget about us!”
Oh and @privatebanker I didn’t mean to imply anything about you. I don’t know you. I was speaking in a general manner. I would “@“ you if it was directed at you.
In Stanley’s and Danko’s The Millionaire Next Door book, wasn’t it common at the time for the wife of a millionaire household to be the more frugal one and the meticulous budgeter (compared to the husband)? (Reflecting the time when they grew up – they were older couples in the 1990s – many of the wives were stay-at-home spouses or employed in more traditionally women’s jobs like teaching.)
So frugal women may not be that unusual, although they may be underrepresented among those blogging about frugal living.
