For those who got into both Yale and Harvard...

Colleges & Universities Yale University
161

<p>Last year was 1:2, not 1:3. The total number in previous years (when Yale had ED) was only around 400. I don’t know totals for last year. They’d certainly be higher but probably not by much (I’d guess 500). The two schools together matriculate roughly 2900 freshman, so it’s quite a small fraction. </p>

<p>Yale’s very much a school on up–the renovations are near completion, New Haven’s been straightened out, and boards like give prospectives great access to information about the schools’ relative strengths (and Yale’s undergrad focus in particular). When I applied to schools just a few years ago, it was very difficult to get information about them from any source besides themselves. My bet’s that we’ll reach parity by the time this entering class graduates.</p>

162

<p>That’s a far cry from the skewed figures Byerly used to post about cross admit data. pretty much, harvard is winning 67% of the time. Closer to that NBER data set on revealed prefernce, which had harvard winning 60% of the time.</p>

163

<p>A lot of the cross-admits I talked to last year (at both Harvard and Yale) seemed to have more specific reasons why they liked Yale (residential colleges, percieved better undergrad focus, no exams after winter break, Yale seemed more fun, etc.). Their reasoning for considering Harvard (and mine too to a large extent, although around April 1st last year I was still a little frustrated with Yale for deferring me and I had been recieving hints from local Harvard alums all March that I was going to be accepted so I was happier with them) weremainly “It’s Harvard! How can you say no to HARVARD!?” and “New Haven sucks.” So I see the reasoning in claiming that people just choose Harvard as the default because it is very hard to say no. Most of those people, even the most pro-Yale among them ended up defaulting to Harvard. I didn’t think it would be difficult to choose as I had just applied to Harvard on a whim after Yale deferred me, but when May 1st came around and even when I knew in my heart that Yale was the place for me, sending in the reply form saying no to Harvard was very difficult.</p>

<p>I also think Harvard plays a fairly dirty trick having their preview days so late, because all of them are fun, but if someone forced me to choose a school the day after I left one of the admitted students weekends at the colleges I had visited last year I probably would have gone to whatever that college was. April is a very stressful time when trying to make a college decision and Harvard is just taking advantage of the manipulability of teenagers.</p>

164

<p>You are hardly typical, though, are you, of MOST common admits?</p>

<p>You were so devoted to Yale that you applied early. When you were then deferred, your nose was out of joint for a while. </p>

<p>Finally, when they admitted you after deferral, you got over the anger, humiliation, sorrow or whatever, and went to the place you wanted to go all along.</p>

<p>Rather typical for those with a <em>similar</em> experience.</p>

<p>As hard as it may be for you to believe, there are many thousands of people who apply to Harvard because they REALLY WANT TO GO THERE. Those who wind up going elsewhere seem to draw some comfort from pretending/claiming - as do you - that this is not the case.</p>

<p>There should be no need to rehash the tired, anti-Harvard cliches.</p>

<p>By the way, Harvard and Yale shared adjacent visiting periods for some years. It was Yale that moved up “Bulldog Days” to avoid the overlap and to, hopefully, increase attendence.</p>

<p>No “dirty tricks” involved, Chasgoose2 - stop being a silly goose.</p>

<hr>

<p>From the YDN April 17, 2000:</p>

<p>“It’s an experiment we’re trying, and we won’t know what the lesson of it is until the conclusion of the second weekend,” Yale College Dean Richard Brodhead said.</p>

<p>The new schedule is intended to accommodate more pre-frosh by offering them two opportunities to visit Yale. Though the second, one-day program might be more convenient for pre-frosh visiting other New England colleges – Harvard’s equivalent of Bulldog Days happens right after the one-day program, from April 28-30 – student organizers admit that it will not be the equal of the two-day program."</p>

165

<p>of course there are thousands of applicants who <em>want</em> very badly and genuinely to go to harvard for college. I think chagoose and others are just saying that the name factor is a big deal and goes alot into why people “really want” to go to Harvar (and Yale too, we shouldn’t throw stones). And its honestly, not a good reason to go to a college.</p>

166

<ol>
<li><p>“People just choose Harvard as the default because it is very hard to say no”, sneers, Chasgoose, while those choosing Yale “have more specific reasons why they like it (residential colleges, perceived better undergrad focus, no exams after winter break, Yale seemed more fun, etc.)” - the standard Yalie cliches used to rationalize Harvard’s edge in the battle for common admits.</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard is “taking advantage of the manipulability of teenagers” in the scheduling of its visiting days, laments Chasgoose: and Yale is not doing the same in the scheduling of “Bulldog Days”? Don’t be absurd. Both Harvard and Yale (as well as other schools) schedule these visiting days for maximum effect as they see it.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Look, as you concede, many people also apply to - and attend - Yale based on its reputation and prestige; it is amusing that these factors are noble when applied to Yale, but ignoble when applied to Harvard, where -like it or not - the reputation and prestige level may be slightly higher.</p>

<p>It is absurd to suggest that those enrolling at almost ANY college aren’t influenced, to a degree, by what they have heard or read about the place.</p>

<p>And this is as it should be. </p>

<p>Basing your decision on how much fun you had your corner of the party on visiting day is a pretty weak and immature way to decide where to spend the next four years.</p>

167

<p>ANY northeastern school is taking advantage of scheduling by scheduling their preview days during the nicest part of the year, when the weather is beautiful, everybody is happy, the cherry blossom trees are brimming with picturesque blossoms…</p>

<p>Unfortunately, this is not what any Ivy League School looks like or feels like from that weeeee small period from November to…March</p>

168

<p>I know this isn’t representative of everyone, but go to this link: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=54270[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=54270&lt;/a&gt; to see what I am talking about.</p>

169

<p>I know many people that applied to Harvard based on name. This applies to Princeton, and Yale, too. I also believe that should Harvard drop from #1 in US News, it would see a considerable decrease in applications. I know that it has, in fact, dropped from being #1 at times. Does my hypothesis hold true?</p>

170

<p>Harvard, for many years, has taken the great bulk of common admits from its “rivals” - no matter how USNews ranked the schools that year. It has has had the highest yield rate ever since this stat has been reported.</p>

171

<p>Does the bulk decrease?</p>

172

<p>As I am informed, the share of common admits Harvard has taken from SYPM has increased in the last 15 years or so: increasingly, the 400 “losses” have included people who accepted full-rides or other large “merit scholarships” to public flagships, or to other private schools such as Duke, WustL, etc. who also grant “merit” aid.</p>

173

<p>Byerly, this is unrelated, but do you happen to have the top 20 or so top national universities for the past few years (as many as possible) for US News?</p>

174

<p>Or like me, I think I’m the only one at least, turning down harvard to go to film school…haha, what am i thinking? </p>

<p>Off to new york I go.</p>

175

<p>Byerly, I was just wondering, do you know the cross-admit rate between Harvard and Stanford?</p>

176

<p>This may be what you are looking for:</p>

<p><a href=“http://thecenter.ufl.edu/usnewsranking.xls[/url]”>http://thecenter.ufl.edu/usnewsranking.xls&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

177

<p>I can tell you this: For some years, Harvard has taken roughly 3/4 of the cross-admits from its chief competitors as a group. That group consists of Stanford, Yale, Princeton and MIT.</p>

<p>While the size of the pool with each school varies somewhat, it is generally consistent - as is the fraction of overall admits preferring each school.</p>

<p>And generally - although not always - the common admit pool shared with Stanford is a bit larger than that shared with the others.</p>

<p>The fraction preferring Harvard over Stanford is not inconsistent with the overall ratio.</p>

<p>You may want to look at THIS article if you haven’t seen it:</p>

<p><a href=“You’ve requested a page that no longer exists | Stanford News”>You’ve requested a page that no longer exists | Stanford News;

178

<p>Byerly, many thanks. Do you happen do have 2002 and 2003 information?</p>

179

<p>Well, sure, but hard to find online unless you get lucky with the “wayback” machine.</p>

<p>If you’re really interested, check for back issues of USNews at the library.</p>

180

<p>Thanks! I had forgotten about that.</p>

<p>By the way, I sent you a PM. Please respond when you can.</p>