<p>POIH, it doesn’t seem as if your daughter had any safety schools. She only applied to elite schools with very low acceptance rates? My D applied to 8 schools and four were reaches, two were matches and two were safeties. </p>
<p>No, my kids did not pick based on published rankings. Your D applied to the top ranked schools in the land. My D had a few that were but at least half the list was not. </p>
<p>You maintain that my kids used a ranking to select and apply to schools, even if they made up their own rankings. I don’t call having reaches/matches/safeties or favorite pile, medium favorites, and happy to attend but least favorites a ranking. EVERY kid has reaches/matches/safeties and favorites and least favorites on their list. My kid did not have a favorite college. She liked all 8. She preferred three the most. These three were not the three most “elite” on her list either. (Tufts was a favorite over Princeton and Penn) You mention choosing to attend the “best” college they got into. They didn’t choose by which school is ranked highest but by which one they liked the best. As I said, my kid knocked her acceptance to Penn off the list and was considering strongly attending Smith. She weighed Smith equally with Brown in her mind, though in the end, Brown was a better fit for her (also preferred coed). </p>
<p>Anyway, your assumption of picking “highly selective” colleges to apply to as equating with Ivies (also what are Ivy+??) is not what I meant my kids did. Selectivity was one of their search criteria (for the level of challenge and academic atmosphere) but “selectivity” encompassed any school that accepts less that around 30% or so (that’s a lot of schools). </p>
<p>For D2, every single BFA in MT program accepts between 2-9% of applicants and so every single school is "Highly selective’. Some are more well known than others and draw top national talent than others, but all have extremely low admit rates.</p>
<p>POIH-
Your example of UCB(EECS) is a good one. It is not as well known to people on the east coast, but I have heard great things about that program (thanks to CC posters). Did your daughter apply? Would she have chosen it over better known, “prestige” schools?</p>
<p>Excellent point, Pizza!!
And to take it further . . . it all depends on individual criteria. An excellent hotel with horse back riding is going to be different than an excellent hotel on the beach. If one wants to go to Vancouver, an excellent hotel in New York will not help.<br>
There are many, many colleges with stellar “regional” reputations that are looked down on here on CC, but the fact is not all kids WANT to travel cross country or far away from home. They may want to build their lives right near where they are, and those colleges will serve them best.
I think the recession has many, many people looking local, staying closer to home, looking for that excellent, mid-priced restaurant with fresh food one suburb over rather than planning that gastronomic trip to Paris . . . you get the analogy.</p>
<p>And of course HYPSM are amazing schools with amazing resources. It still doesn’t mean everyone wants to go.</p>
<p>Wicked, FC?? I don’t follow. Those were totally honest, legit questions if that is what you are referring to. Sooze said POIH’s dau didnt have any safeties. I wonder if UCB would be considered a safety for an instate strong student (I DK). If not, what about the UCSB program. I have heard very good things about both, particularly tailored for the computer/engineering students. Can you clarify what you think is “wicked”?? I really don’t get it.</p>
<p>pOIH, did your D ever seriously consider any LAC or any university outside the top 20 uni list? The very fact that your wife structured the discussion and goal as “HYPSM” instead of “excellent education” says that it was prestige driven</p>
<p>If I understand POIH’s family, is that they equated “very selective” with Ivies or something called Ivy+. And many applicants who say they want “very selective” schools consider a much broader range of schools than those. The name “ParentofIvyHope” says something. I don’t get POIH’s point that for them it was HMSPY and not HYPMS. Does the order matter? The college list is the same either way! I had never even heard of HYPMS until I read CC, nor the concept of upper and lower Ivies or whatever Ivy+ is. So, I don’t think that all students (including my own kids) who have ONE of their selection criteria to be a school that is very selective academically to be the same as seeking Ivies (or whatever Ivy+ indicates). My kid happened to attend an Ivy, that’s true, but applied to Tufts, Smith, Conn College and Lehigh too! My other kid applied to highly selective programs in her field but Ivies were not ever considered as they don’t even offer her field.</p>
<p>POIH’s daughter is obviously a stellar student as I believe she attends MIT, but if I understand her college list, there were no safeties on it and the schools were ALL elite. Most kids I know who apply to top elites, including my own daughter, do not apply to ALL elites, but rather a range of colleges that meet their selection criteria. It wasn’t “elite school or bust” or surely not “Ivy (or Ivy+) or bust.”</p>
<p>I actually give POIH a lot of credit. He obviously has a very bright, capable daughter and is fortunate to have been able to afford to send her to wherever she wanted to go and was able to gain acceptance. If they wanted to aim for the Ivys and/or all the tippy top name/prestige schools, thats fine by me. Especially since he did not expect ** someone else** to pay for it. That gains mega respect points in my book. </p>
<p>Admittedly, the hobknob with snobs line was funny, but if that was the phrase that meant something to them and it was a goal they wanted, who are we to diasgree? Each family has its own priorities. However, if that was the priority-- fine. Its ok to say so.</p>
<p>POIH, just trying to understand your comments in context. Was your D’s college list the following?: (NO PARTICULAR ORDER)</p>
<p>Harvard
Princeton
Yale
CalTech
MIT
Stanford
UC-Berkeley (EECS)</p>
<p>If so, I just looked up the rankings on USNews and that means she applied to:</p>
<p>2 schools ranked #1
1 school ranked #3
3 schools ranked #4
1 school ranked #21 (and to a very selective major)</p>
<p>So, for your D, if the above is true, “highly selective” equated to schools ranked 1-4 on USNews, except for UC-B which is ranked extremely high at 21, let alone is a highly selective major. </p>
<p>This differs from what I was saying when my kids looked at “highly selective schools” and did not use rankings. They simply were looking within the large group of colleges that have selective admissions rates, which embodies a LOT more schools than USNews top 4 or 20. </p>
<p>Also, I can’t imagine not having any match or safety schools, even though things worked out well for your D.</p>
<p>Both my kids fell in love with Bard, which is not super elite. They did not atend, because they loved the schools they chose even more, but would have been delighted to. They found an intellectual vibe “that was in the air” for them.</p>
<p>Since acceptance rates at the most highly coveted schools are so dismal and acceptances sometimes seem so capricious, it seems just common sense to identify what one likes most about the schools and look for less selective alternative to round out a list. Not as safeties, but as alternatives who have the added advantage of being easier to be admitted to.</p>
<p>For example, research important? Try SUNY Stony Brook.</p>
<p>My kids wanted a certain intellectual rigor to be their top criteria and they found that at Bard.</p>
<p>Soozie-- I understand that for your MT child there may not be less selective alternatives. I am speaking generally.</p>
<p>jym, I cross posted but I also have no problem with if POIH’s family preferred Ivies or something called IVY+. But I was discussing the point that POIH made earlier that my saying that my kids were seeking highly selective colleges would be equated with Ivy, upper/lower Ivy or Ivy+ and that was NOT the case for my own kids whatsoever. I understand that may be what POIH’s D was seeking and that’s cool.</p>
<p>mythmom, it’s true that my D2’s college process defied the logic of D1’s process with reaches/matches/safeties since all the BFA in MT programs had very reachy odds with such LOW acceptance rates. It was a mind boggling process and includes a very subjective component that counts the most significantly in the admissions decision…the audition.</p>
<p>Seems we are again talking about the ludicracy of these lists of “top schools”. In reality- getting whatever the criteria are that are important to the student/family as part of their “fit” is part of the formula for choosing a school. </p>
<p>IMO, best fit (and fit can include “top name recognition” if that is a student/parents desire as well as the best program for that student) + ability to pay equals the best school choice for a student.</p>
<p>jym, many families, including my own, were seeking best fits and “selectivity” was one of several selection criteria. What I have trouble relating to is posts on CC where kids have all 8 Ivies on the list or only top 10 or 20 colleges in the rankings. It seems that the thinking is either Ivy or bust or Ivy+ (what is that?) or bust or top 10 or 20 or bust. In these cases, it doesn’t seem that fit is the primary thing, but where ranking and prestige is the main selection criteria, as the schools differ a great deal. But also, it seems very risky to confine one’s college list to only the most selective and highly ranked colleges, even if a very qualified candidate.</p>
<p>Also, the concept of “upper Ivy” and “lower Ivy” which I had NEVER heard before visiting CC, boggles my mind! :D</p>
<p>I don’t even recall my kid using the term “Ivy” in her entire college process. Each school was just a school. She started with 30 schools that met her selection criteria and whittled the list to the final 8 to apply to. She referred to them as reaches, matches, and safeties, but never used the term, Ivy. And she surely never heard the terms HYPSM or upper or lower Ivy or Ivy+ before.</p>
<p>Growing up, she always said her goal was to go to a “good college” and never thought in terms of “going to an Ivy”. She did end up at one, but just really liked this school a lot but liked many schools just as much that were not Ivies.</p>
<p>By the way, one of my theater student advisees is about to start NYU/Tisch which she chose to matriculate at even though she was also accepted to Stanford and Brown. On CC, it seems, some eyes would bulge at such a thought.</p>
<p>I believe POIH’s daughter had plenty of safety colleges. I think her close to safety was Caltech. UCB, UCLA were certainly the safety schools. Californian kids in top 5% of class who apply to selective private colleges use UCB, UCLA, and UCSD as safeties. It happens in every CA school.</p>