<p>1sokkermom, it’s cleansing isn’t it? Live out loud. Kudos from me. 
*Say what ya’ mean and mean what ya’ say. *</p>
<p>OK…you guys made me work. I’ve seen:</p>
<p>Top 10- 9/10 (haven’t ever been to Swat)</p>
<p>11-50 I’ve seen 17</p>
<p>51-100 I’ve seen 16</p>
<p>100-200 I’ve seen 13</p>
<p>200-300 I’ve seen 10</p>
<p>Total: 65…not bad considering most of the schools my two kids looked at weren’t on these lists at all!! (although the schools they attended were!!)</p>
<p>Yeah, a major in Crass, with a minor in Speed-Deleting.</p>
<p>“it’s cleansing isn’t it? Live out loud.”</p>
<p>It…it’s kind of nice to…ah…see some Ivies sweating their reputations once in a while. There, I said it.</p>
<p>I honestly don’t think anyone or any school is sweating their reputations over this Forbes listing!</p>
<p>It may make someone who attends schools like Wabash, Doane, or Berry feel affirmed and if so, that’s great.</p>
<p>“I honestly don’t think anyone or any school is sweating their reputations over this Forbes listing!”</p>
<p>Right, because it’s not like there have been dozens of panicky posts in the last day trying breathlessly to discredit the Forbes rankings.</p>
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<p>Schmaltz. you are assigning motivations based on your assumptions. Speaking for myself, I could care less what ranking Forbes has given to my kids’ colleges. My comments were about their methodology which I find very odd and not that valid. I would have said that if my kids’ colleges were ranked #1 and #2 on this list. My thoughts would not differ in terms of how meaningless this methodology is and how odd it is.</p>
<p>Sooz, if you say one more time that you’re 100% oblivious to any rankings, I’m going to have to get a wider monitor, because your virtual nose is growing.</p>
<p>In an odd sort of way, I think Forbes is providing a valuable service by shaking things up a bit by making people question some long-standing biases they might have, and also question the value of rankings in general. </p>
<p>That’s different from taking them seriously as being meaningful rankings of academic quality. </p>
<p>Even in the dark ages (before USNews even had rankings) as a kid of non-college educated parents, I had some sort of idea of what the “prestige” colleges were. I have no idea how I knew that Bowdoin or Williams or Smith or Mt. Holyoke were prestigious (ok, I was a big reader, so I heard of Amherst in a Betty Cavanna novel), but the others, I have no idea. </p>
<p>My point is that the perception of prestige even outside of places like Harvard and Yale has been around a long time. Frankly, I personally think that a lot of small liberal arts schools, and some of the larger schools, are riding on reputations from forty or fifty years ago, when they were solely populated by the wealthy. People still think that these certain names will lend their lives a certain cachet.</p>
<p>Those days are long over, I think, and they’re not coming back.</p>
<p>I think the way to go is by using a guide like Fiske, which offer ideas for schools that have had good academic reputations over time; if one’s kid is not top 400 or so college caliber, go through the Barrons guide, starting by location, cost, fields of study, scores, etc. etc. </p>
<p>It’s really not <em>that</em> hard.</p>
<p>Schmaltz,
Do you really think, for example, that I would panic that NYU is (wait, I have to look it up on Forbes…) 173? I’m just simply laughing, that’s all. What I care about is that my D LOVED her experiences there and it was a perfect match for her. And in terms of reputation, if that matters, for her field, musical theater, NYU/Tisch is considered one of the top programs in the country. I could care less if Wabash is ranked higher! Do you think anyone in the audition room in NYC knows of Wabash for musical theater? Berry? Capital? Wofford? These schools do not even have BFA in MT programs. </p>
<p>Am I worried about the ranking for my other D’s school, Brown? (wait…I have to look it up first…) #45? Nope! My daughter loved her time there and it was worth every penny we have to pay for it. That’s what counts. As far as Brown’s reputation in the country? I think it enjoys a well regarded one and the Forbes list doesn’t affect any of that. </p>
<p>Stop assuming people are worried about this ranking. People can comment about the article and the validity of this “study” without feeling personally affected in any way.</p>
<p>"In an odd sort of way, I think Forbes is providing a valuable service by shaking things up a bit by making people question some long-standing biases they might have, and also question the value of rankings in general. "</p>
<p>on the contrary, I think Forbes is legitimating USNWR by contrast.</p>
<p>"I think the way to go is by using a guide like Fiske, which offer ideas for schools that have had good academic reputations over time; "</p>
<p>we used fiske. </p>
<p>But fiske did not include Temple which my DD chose as her safety. I am pretty sure it occurred to us to think about Temple cause we were perusing down the USNWR rankings, and said “why not?”. </p>
<p>also Fiske almost never says anything negative about anywhere, which reduces its usefulness somewhat.</p>
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<p>I cross posted with you. Only on CC have I heard of people being so tuned into college rankings. In my community in rural Vermont, there is NO talk whatsoever about college rankings. I had never viewed them when my kids applied to college in fact. Sue me. </p>
<p>I can look up rankings if I wish. I have a subscription to USNews for my work as a college counselor, but not for the rankings, but rather the data on many colleges in one location. </p>
<p>You know, just because many on CC really care about rankings or pick colleges based on rankings (so many posts here even refer to “top 20” or “top 50”, etc.), it doesn’t mean that everyone is tuned into these rankings. I’m not. I looked at the rankings due to reading so many posts about them, but otherwise would not have and never did before I came to CC. That is why I do not know off hand the ranking for my own schools or my kids’ schools. I know they enjoy good reputations, however.</p>
<p>Schmaltz, there are many people on CC into rankings, for sure. I am amazed by it all and have been since I came to this site. </p>
<p>For example, while my kids never posted here or read CC, I can’t imagine the licking my D would have gotten if she had posted that she was considering Smith over her acceptance to Penn as a Ben Franklin Scholar. The idea of prestige or rankings did not enter it for her. She liked Smith more than Penn.</p>
<p>bbd: Good points, but you can get a listing of colleges in the Barrons or other of the big fat college directories. In fact, in my day, before the popularity of rankings, that’s what we did. It takes more work than running down the USNWR list, but if you have an idea as to location you are looking for, competitiveness of the school you want, and even possibly your kid’s intended field of study, is it that hard to just bypass the USNews? I don’t think so.</p>
<p>And today, all other pertinent info can be found on college websites.</p>
<p>Bonniemom, yes, our kids bypassed USNews. We didn’t have that in our house. We had the Fiske Guide, the Princeton Review Guide, The Insider’s Guide to College put out by Yale Daily News, and three different theater or performing arts college directories. That is why I was commenting earlier on this thread that the Forbes list of Best Colleges is odd because there are many schools in their top 250 that don’t even appear in these guidebooks/directories which include many MORE than 250 schools. However, if it exposes some people to some unknown schools, why not? I just don’t find their method too valid. But many may learn of new schools this way.</p>
<p>By the way, with students whom I advise, I recommend these big fat college directories (and colleges’ own sites) and have never referred to the rankings in USNews. I wasn’t even aware of the Forbes one until I read this thread. The rankings are just not where it is at for me in selecting colleges.</p>
<p>The part of USNews online that I view and use is the data on each college in one location but not the rankings pages.</p>
<p>“Good points, but you can get a listing of colleges in the Barrons or other of the big fat college directories. In fact, in my day, before the popularity of rankings, that’s what we did. It takes more work than running down the USNWR list, but if you have an idea as to location you are looking for, competitiveness of the school you want, and even possibly your kid’s intended field of study, is it that hard to just bypass the USNews? I don’t think so.”</p>
<p>well A, DD was still kind of iffy about intended field of study at that point (she wanted arch as a career, , but could get that in grad school if the best undergrad on other grounds was weak in Arch) and location was anywhere in the eastern half of the USA.</p>
<p>But yeah, we could have cobbled together the equivalent of what we got from USNWR from other sources. But why? Would I get brownie points in heaven for not using USNWR? I mean is this like boycotting goods made in sweatshops? USNWR was (and IS) a convenient source of info, which mattered as the days turned to hours for the transcript request deadline. “daddy, I don’t really LIKE the safeties you’re suggesting” “DH, our DD won’t be in her intellectual milieu at those” “thats why they’re SAFETIES! We have one day left, she had better pick something!”</p>
<p>One thing that is useful on USNews’ site is that you can find listings for schools for certain majors and so that is a good starting point if searching that way.</p>
<p>“Bonniemom, yes, our kids bypassed USNews. We didn’t have that in our house. We had the Fiske Guide,”</p>
<p>i guess you get brownie points in heaven then </p>
<p>We used Fiske, USNWR, a map (when we were planning our trips), the lists of where TJ kids had gone before, schools DW and I knew about, schools DD heard about from her friends and some CC suggestions. </p>
<p>We looked at Princeton Review post facto. It wouldnt have made any difference.</p>
<p>I mean we kept slicing it different ways - almost all of them pointed to schools which were between 20 or so and 60 or so on the USNWR NU list (and some around 20 to 40 IIRC on the LAC list) as where the good fits, which were also matches, were to be found. If we HAD used USNWR to rule out schools (other than safeties) we would have gotten the same list, ignoring Fiske, GC advice, CC advice, etc, etc. Which leads me to believe USNWR isnt as arbitrary as everyone says it is. </p>
<p>I think the difference is, when we saw one school at 35, and another at 40 - that said to us these schools are roughly similar in their academic reputation. To others, that said 35 is much better than number 40. </p>
<p>That I think, is a fundamental innumeracy that is far beyond USNWR’s power to correct. </p>
<p>Its like when someone sees a poll that says politician X has favorable rankings from 49% and unfavorable from 51% and folks scream Pol X is rejected. No folks, it means its basically a tie.</p>