Forget US News?

cghen · June 27, 2007, 11:32pm

I obviously don’t know to what specific lengths that you went in investigating these schools, but I’d be very weary to trust my college list (to an extent) on anecdotes of friends and others - people can be incredibly biased very easily for these sorts of things. Just make sure that you can substantiate these opinions as much as possible and make sure to visit as many of these schools as you can.

I mean, if you’re going to ditch ‘conventional wisdom’, just make sure you have your facts straight.

topofthegame · June 28, 2007, 3:57am

I actually don’t see what’s so “Forget US News” about your list. All of the schools on your list are schools that rank somewhere in the top 20s in USNews.

“Is it a perfectly valid and sane decision to decide, screw US News and the rest of the world in where they think is the best place for me?”

Umm. Yeah. It’s valid, but by taking your friends’ advice aren’t you not screwing what the rest of the world think?

CountingDown · June 28, 2007, 10:35am

For the sake of argument –
Aren’t the perspectives of folks who actually attend those schools (and for all I know, the specific departments) valuable? It’s so hard to get past all the sanitized and processed PR put out by admissions folks and tour guides – I would have welcomed the fresh air of real opinions back when I was looking at schools.

If the OP’s friends know him well, and they share similar interests, that might be a better barometer as to “fit” than anything a GC (or this list!) could offer. OP did mention a summer program and national Olympiad competitions – perhaps there are knowledgeable profs providing input, too.

we_want_a_rock · June 28, 2007, 10:58am

Clarifications:

<ol>
<li> Much of the advice I got was from while these friends were making their own college decisions–and let me tell you, it wasn’t easy for them. I got to see my friends agonizing between a number of very exceptional colleges, and discussing the good and bad of each. Some, I’ve only talked to since they’ve been at their college, and in some cases, there is bias – which I’ve of course taken with a large grain of salt.</li>
<li> My friends are anything but the rest of the world–they are, shall we say, rather “screw what the rest of the world thinks” themselves.</li>
<li> Some of the “friends” I’m getting advice from are college professors – professors who aren’t at schools I’m interested in. People who have talked to colleagues at all kinds of colleges and watched students a lot like me go through the college process themselves.</li>
<li> I’ve visited every one of the schools, sat in on classes at every one of the schools, talked to department heads/high-ups at all but two (which I’ll have done by the fall), and taken thorough notes.</li>
</ol>

menloparkmom · June 28, 2007, 12:17pm

You’ll have lots of options I’m sure. And if you change your mind, you can always transfer, as my son is doing. Just listen to your gut when you are deciding.

monydad · June 28, 2007, 1:02pm

There’s nothing wrong with these schools, and as far as I know (which is nothing) you’re a reasonable candidate for just about anyplace.

Presumably a common thread is they are all good places to learn math & comp sci.

Other than that, though, to me this list seems fairly scattered. There are lots of places to study math & comp sci at the undergraduate level, that can all lead to top grad schools if you’ve got the stuff. Undergraduate-level math & comp sci courses are not that rare.

To me, a good reason to be fixating on the places with biggest-name grad departments in these particular areas is if you think you’ll be done with undergrad-level courses early on, due to advance standing. Even then, you might not be correct. My daughter came in with gobs of advance standing and is not at all done with offerings at her liberal arts college.

Otherwise, I think a lot of schools will do about as well. If you look at who gets into these grad departments as grad students, you may find people from lots of schools that aren’t on your list. As well as those that are on it.

Bu there’s a lot more to college than just your major. Most of your college courses will be courses outside of your major. Your college will be in a particular place, with particular types of social scenes.

Do you think you’d prefer a big school, or a small school?
Do you want to be in or near a city? Or in a small town?
Do you prefer the East Coast? THe West coast? OR the Midwest?

Do you want your free electives to be dominated by tech school offerings, and tech students? Or do you want to be equally challenged in the Humanities, and expand your knowledge in diverse areas? There can be significant differences in this regard. At some schools humanities classes may be dominated by sharp pre-law or pre-PhD students who are as passionate about these courses as you may be about math. Other schools, much less so. Which sounds better to you?

Your choices are all over the map with respect to these and other parameters.

Reed is a liberal arts college. Some other liberal arts colleges you might look into are Swarthmore and Oberlin. If that’s what you like.

I’m a former Physics major, and when my kids are doing college visits I sometimes go into the bookstores to browse. The math books the Swarthmore kids were using seemed to me to be the highest level I’ve seen, comparable to MIT or Cal Tech IMO. My daughter is actually studying at Oberlin; the math department is excellent and I’ve heard good reports about comp sci.

Some other options:

Brown has a well-regarded applied math program, and has good CS I believe.
-If you like the setting, and frats, of Cornell, and the intimacy of Reed, maybe Dartmouth would be a good choice.
If you like urban proximity and mandatory Humanities programs (Reed, Chicago) maybe you’d like Columbia as well; either Columbia College or Columbia SEAS.

So there’s lots of other places that may be great choices for you, if you articulate your preferences beyond just your major.

You haven’t even started, and lots of people change their major.

Another thing, places may differ in their ability to help you continue at your high-level sports thing. I assume that’s important to you. And I assume you’ve already considered that.

monydad · June 28, 2007, 1:27pm

Whoops, I guess it’s not a sports thing: never mind!!!

arkleseizure · June 28, 2007, 1:38pm

Okay, monydad; to be honest, I do know a LOT about what I want, but didn’t say much.

“Do you think you’d prefer a big school, or a small school?” 
I’ve gone to all kinds of schools, all different sizes; sat in on classes, even spent nights in dorms, and I can say flat-out that I have NO preference here. I’m absolutely sure of this.

“Do you want to be in or near a city? Or in a small town?”
Ditto.

“Do you prefer the East Coast? The West coast? Or the Midwest?”
Ditto.

To be honest, these things matter very little to me–not because they won’t affect my college experience; these things will be the most important factors in my college experience! However, I feel like I have the experience to be able to appreciate both ends of each of these spectra. I realize that my eventual decision will dramatically affect my development and preferences for the rest of my life, but I’m absolutely sure I’d be happy in each of these cases–and that I wouldn’t regret any of them.

“Do you want your free electives to be dominated by tech school offerings, and tech students? Or do you want to be equally challenged in the Humanities, and expand your knowledge in diverse areas? There can be significant differences in this regard. At some schools humanities classes may be dominated by sharp pre-law or pre-PhD students who are as passionate about these courses as you may be about math. Other schools, much less so. Which sounds better to you?”

I definitely want to surround myself with these people! I want to avoid being stifled in the humanities, and that’s honestly just as big a priority for me as keeping myself busy in mathematics. My list certainly contains schools in which that probably is not possible–which is why they’re towards the bottom of the list–but I’m keeping an open mind in this respect. (Yes, there’s irony in keeping an open mind towards surrounding myself with tech students and tech classes!)

“My daughter is actually studying at Oberlin; the math department is excellent and I’ve heard good reports about comp sci.” Oberlin certainly looks very tempting; I’m not sure, however, that they have enough courses to keep me busy.

“Brown has a well-regarded applied math program, and has good CS I believe.” Yes, but a) I’m not interested in applied, b) their course offerings are awfully small anyway.
“If you like the setting, and frats, of Cornell, and the intimacy of Reed, maybe Dartmouth would be a good choice.” I hate with a flaming passion frats in general; in any event, Dartmouth’s math offerings seem stifling.
“If you like urban proximity and mandatory Humanities programs (Reed, Chicago) maybe you’d like Columbia as well; either Columbia College or Columbia SEAS.” Columbia seems a little stuck-up to me; I just get really negative vibes from Columbia.

“Another thing, places may differ in their ability to help you continue at your high-level sports thing. I assume that’s important to you.” Not so much.

I guess I know that statistically I’ll almost certainly change my major, but until that actually happens I’m going to remain absolutely confident that I won’t. I’ve got enough experience, spoken to enough people, that I can imagine–in considerable detail–a day in my life in a number of careers. I feel like I have a very good understanding of the possibilities I have, and I’m absolutely sure right now I want to go into academia as a math professor. Meh.

menloparkmom · June 28, 2007, 1:52pm

whoa arkleseizure,we-want-a-rock,etc?.
too many screen names to keep straight!

monydad · June 28, 2007, 2:20pm

“Oberlin certainly looks very tempting; I’m not sure, however, that they have enough courses to keep me busy”

That may be true for you; however, at a brief glance it looks to me like they offer more math courses than Reed does.

I can tell you that my D completed Calc III and Stats while still in high school, will be finishing this year and she’s certainly managed to keep plenty busy. She hasn’t remotely exhausted their offerings. Her incoming stats were not that different than yours, and she has been quite challenged in the math department.

FYI, Cornell has a very active frat scene.
I don’t hear much about humanities at CMU. Other than Econ.

SarahsDad · June 28, 2007, 2:29pm

In at all but Caltech and MIT, which are slight reaches. Remember though, humble beats haughty any day.

we_want_a_rock · June 28, 2007, 2:29pm

Whoops.
Okay, monydad; to be honest, I do know a LOT about what I want, but didn’t say much.