If this kid is jailed within driving distance of the college it seems possible they would let him continue. His prison will know his schedule and expect him back at a particular time. He is unlikely to be a threat to anyone during his sentence…but colleges are running scared these days so who knows.
He’s already been expelled. He won’t be going back to his college.
This story reads ugly. This rapist knew what he was doing.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/austin-wilkerson-boulder-rape-prison_us_57abb86ce4b06e52746f3b22
It reads ugly because it is ugly. We then have to consider whether people who commit heinous crimes like rape of an unconscious woman should be imprisoned, or whether society is best served if they have a punishment that doesn’t involve prison.
My concern was the judge treating rape as less bad than other crimes that many of us would think of as lesser offenses. I don’t think he did, though.
The Guardian has published a statement by the victim. It is just stunning. I’m on my phone and can’t figure out how to copy and paste it here. Someone please do!
Re: #24
You mean this web page?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/11/campus-sexual-assault-university-colorado-austin-wilkerson
I read the victim’s statement…I feel for her. Too bad the judge didn’t.
@dstark: Even if the judge felt for the victim, sentencing isn’t supposed to be about making the victim feel better. That said, two years jail time, 20 years probation, and a felony record ought to do plenty to satisfy vengeance.
2 years jail time with half of that time being spent out of jail working or attending school seems light IMO.
@Demosthenes49, you keep mentioning vengeance. I think the word is punishment.
The guy committed a felony. A violent crime…so having a felony record seems appropriate.
Imo, the sentence is light. The judge isn’t sure if the rapist wouldn’t rape again. How comforting.
Your argument that victims should go to the police and use the criminal justice system for these crImes is undermined by these sentences.
This sentence is tougher than the Brock sentence though. I guess Brock is a better athlete.
I talked to my 22 YO son about this case last night. I don’t have an opinion about the sentence in the Colorado case. I don’t know what should have happened and I certainly hope the victim heals mentally and physically.
I talked to my son because the Colorado perp’s face was on one of the news channels I read online so I don’t think anyone has to worry about this getting bigger. I told my son it is similar to the Stanford Swimmer’s case.
I told him that both of the young men involved were about his age and probably feeling pretty good about themselves and their futures 24-hours before the crimes were committed. I tried to get him to realize how quickly one can screw things up. When people are that age, and you combine alcohol or drugs, and a party scene, sometimes bad things can happen. My son is home from college for a few weeks until he starts grad school later this month. He went out with his high school friends last night and ended up away from his car and spending the night somewhere. I had to pick him up and drive him to his car.
I doubt seriously the parents of the Colorado or Stanford kids are much different than I am. They probably did everything right (or so they thought). Yet, their sons made tragic, unalterable mistakes that will affect their lives and the victims lives forever. I don’t know “how” it happens but I do remember being that age and how it was considered “right” to try to “score” as much as possible. I don’t know where I got that mentality at that age, probably from the older kids in my neighborhood, but I don’t want my sons (22 and 18) to be as stupid as I was.
I never assaulted anyone but I can see how it can happen.
My son mentioned some things that I didn’t like. I let him finish and then I corrected him. All you can do as a parent is guide and advise and pray. I agree with the earlier comments that mentioning that the victim was drinking is not victim shaming it is reporting the circumstances of the event. She is not responsible for what happen regardless of what or how much she drank or how she was dressed or her previous lifestyle or party choices. I don’t believe that the young men involved were “bad” kids previous to the events. Again, I don’t have an opinion as to the proper punishment. It is tragic, sad and painful for both sides and their families. I think maybe one of the only ways the men involved could redeem themselves in some degree would be to educate other people their age, primarily men, about how they went down that tragic road. What were they thinking? Why did they allow themselves to do it? What would they tell themselves if they could do it all over again?
I think that would help other young men because this stuff happens way too often and, as someone else said, we already have the highest incarceration rate of any industrialized nation on earth. You can’t lock everyone up forever. It is better to prevent some percentage of those crimes before they ever happen.
Meanwhile, a different defendant plea bargained to 6 counts of rape of intoxicated victim and got a 20 year sentence (3+1/3 years per count): http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1817345-sexual-assault-suspect-arrested-near-uiuc.html .
It does look like there is a large variation in sentencing for this type of crime.
There should be a large variation in sentencing…there is no one size fits all nor should there ever be. There are many reasons why the US has such a huge percentage of people incarcerated, but one of them is one size fits all laws like 3-strikes which treats all crimes equally. I think the number one goal of our system should be punishment and rehabilitation getting folks back into society in a contributory manner ought to be the first goal. There is no release of information regarding the trial for the original post link, but on surface you can’t compare the link above at all to the original post case. But even if you parse out the totality of the link above, 3.5 years for one offense could be made up of some jail time and probation and could still be very similar to the original posts offense or the Brock Turner judgement And finally, the guilty party in the above link drugged women…in the Turner and in the OP case, the women drank of their own free will…neither of those accused “drugged” those women. Simply no comparison legally.
@dstark: Punishment is detached and objective. It is society’s way of seeing that there is a penalty associated with bad behavior. Vengeance is subjective. It’s wrapped up in hurting the people who hurt us. When we talk about how the victim feels, what the victim wanted, we’re talking about vengeance. Punishment is one of the factors we use to set sentencing, but we’ve also learned that everyone is better off if we take into account other things too.
@Demosthenes, Punishment is subjective too.
I think you are playing word games.
The sentence the judge chose in this case was a subjective choice based on parameters. The parameters are subjective too.
I guess you are ok with this sentence. You are being subjective. I disagree with you. I am being subjective.
We have parameters. If a rapist can be sentenced to 4 to 12 years, I have no problem with a victim arguing for the maximum. The victim was not arguing for a death sentence. The judge and whoever he listened to are pushing a sentence that is legal but below the guidelines.
Why have these guidelines? Decisions like this is how we end up with crummy laws like the 3 strikes law in California.
I have no disagreement with victim impact statements but a judge must be dispassionate and weigh both sides when rendering a judgment and what benefits society as a whole. It is afterall the “state” that is prosecuting…not the victim. The state is responsible for protecting the interests of the state.
@dstark: Punishment is not subjective, in the sense that it does not turn on how any given person feels about the crime. People experience being the victims of crimes in different ways, and their corresponding desire to get back at the person who hurt them similarly varies. Punishment is set out by statute. It is objective, even if guided by criteria. It doesn’t look to how anyone experienced the crime.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/11/us/colorado-sexual-assault-sentence/
“the third degree felony sexual assault charge for which he was convicted is in the same class of crimes as second degree murder and vehicular homicide.”
Our notions here of appropriate punishment are almost completely out of line with those in the rest of the world. Starting with the death penalty, of course, which is incomprehensible almost everywhere else, but on down the line. A twenty year sentence for homicide would be extreme. On Fresh Air yesterday, they were talking about a German man who had joined ISIS and participated in a video in which several people were executed (although not directly by him). He later thought better of it and returned to Germany. He was convicted of providing material aid to terrorists, and sentenced to three years in prison (reduced to two by time served).
If that is a reference point, I am not so upset about two years in jail, with work release, and a long probation for someone convicted of a single sexual assault while both parties (apparently) were severely impaired. I think more people should get sentences like that, not fewer. Two years’ incarceration, even with work release, and having all of the problems that come with being labeled a felon and a sexual predator are plenty enough punishment to deter the next kid. No one thinks, “What the heck? I am going to rape this woman because if I am caught and labeled a rapist I will only spend two years in jail and I will be able to keep some kind of low-level employment.”
Seems reasonable to compare to second degree murder and vehicular manslaughter. If anything being on a sex registry is actually a stronger sentence than one sees with vehicular manslaughter etc. I have brought up that same comparison.