Note: this individual was not convicted of rape, although he was convicted of three serious sexual assault violations.
We’d all like to think that this is true, but what is the factual basis for this statement?
Are you sure?
I think what Brock was convicted of falls in the category of rape in California. I may check on this later.
Not that it matters because what Brock did is grotesque.
The effects of alcohol from reading, observations of inebriated drunks in my old neighborhood/friends during/after college, talking with medical doctors who had experience with researching/studying alcohol on patients, and a pharmacology teacher in HS who taught chemistry/biochemistry and is a graduate of the Columbia U College of Physicians and Surgeons.
Where are the facts? The data? the research articles? While alcohol can make one person disinhibited, another can be silly and another simply fall asleep. Of course, like all that other stuff, this is merely observational.
@cobrat – if that were enough to cause a judge to recuse him- or herself, then there would be very few judges to try any cases because there are so many weak links like that between almost any two people that judges would have to recuse themselves right and left.
Just look at the judge here. You are making the argument that the fact that he was involved in sports at the same undergrad school as the defendant is enough to raise a question of bias in favor of the defense. Yet he has MUCH CLOSER and more significant ties to the prosecution – he spent most of his professional life as a prosecutor in the very same division of the very same office that is prosecuting this case.
Any lawyer looking at this case at the beginning of the case would have been much more concerned about potential unconscious bias in favor of the prosecution than the defense.
Do you really think the judge would have made a different decision if the defendant had been an athlete from UC Berkeley instead of Stanford? There’s no evidence of this whatsoever.
dstark…the two rape charges were dropped.
Convicted of three counts of felony sexual assault. Faced up to 14 years of prison. I’ve also read that he faced up to 10 years of prison.
The former two are considered classical cases of alcohol’s effects on reducing inhibitions for behaviors from individuals who already had some inclination for doing so.
It is mainly their need to restrain themselves for behaviors which may be considered socially unacceptable, embarrassing, or worse…criminal which is much more easily done while in a sober state than while under the influence.
One reason why this may be difficult for some to conceptualize is that one really needs to know the individuals well to really observe this dynamics such as a friend who by first impressions/acquaintance level knowledge appears polite and well-put together. However, when one really gets to know her under stress or when inebriated, can have a seriously violent temper to the point she’s went on what appeared to be sudden explosive tantrums seemingly out of the blue, knocked out car windows with her feet/fists*, and spent a few nights in a holding cell on account of actions resulting from her actions under stress/alcohol inebriation. Later on after she entered a rehab program she admitted her addictive behaviors and latent anger management issues which tends to come out under stress/alcohol was the reason why she was invited to leave two universities and several jobs afterwards and why she’s lost so many friends over the years before I knew her. Thankfully, she’s on the mend now after over 20+ years.
Another example is the homeless men in my old neighborhood who were alcoholics and spent quite a bit of their time in an inebriated state. After observing them for nearly a decade from 6 and up, some were either quiet/withdrawn or gregariously happy-go-lucky friendly with everyone.
Others were quite anti-social, angry, and even prone to violence. They were the ones everyone in the neighborhood knew to avoid and for the local cops…the ones to keep a close eye on as much as possible despite the serious staffing/budget constraints back then.
- She herself was amazed at how much damaged she caused in her drunken state considering she's not very athletic and is ~4'11". However, she currently own up and take responsibility for having the seriously violent temper behind such destructive behaviors/actions.
Honestly, it doesn’t matter what happens to any one person, as alcohol affects people differently, can coexist with other illnesses and can in some cases cause permanent damage in diseases processes (from chronic alcohol abuse) such as Korsakoff’s syndrome. But that is beyond the scope of this discussion.
True, I’m not sure even professionals have figured out the role alcohol plays in sexual assault. But, it is fairly common that alcohol is considered as courts determine sentencing. I don’t have any knowledge if this young man is going through alcohol counseling. Actually they both should. 2 or 3 times the legal limit is alotta alcohol.
From today’s New York Times: “Outrage in Stanford Rape Case Over Dueling Statements of Victim and Attacker’s Father”
HarvestMoon1 wrote:
This is sort of why I was asking the questions upthread. It had occurred to me, perhaps it isn’t at all unusual that once a woman has gone through the hell of reporting and trial, the rapist still is barely punished, especially when the rapist is a young white upper middle class athlete. As dstark keeps pointing out, telling women to report to police is problematic. It doesn’t ensure justice. It is frequently a much worse experience for the accuser than the accused. That is why we are interested in what kind of justice and protections colleges can provide rape survivors. Could they do any worse in this case than what happened? I do understand the Stanford already took action, or the young man withdrew before he could be expelled. I can’t remember the details.
Sometimes I have mixed feelings about these sex registries, but not in this case. He hasn’t admitted the rape. He hasn’t expressed remorse. If he doesn’t understand what he did was wrong, how do we know he won’t rape again? I sure would want any young woman to be able to google him and find him on a registry before deciding to go on a date with him. Of course, unless he changes his name, googling should do the trick without the registry. He could change his name.
I know from experience that alcohol can magically change personalities.
Almost all of the adults in the extended family that I grew up in drank heavily, and some were definitely alcoholics. As a child, I thought that the difference between adults and children was that children only had one personality and adults had two – a pleasant, sensible one that I could trust and a scary, mean, unpredictable one that scared the stuffing out of me. I was terrified that when I grew up (by which I meant reaching puberty, although I did not know the word), I would suddenly develop a second, horrible personality. When I finally discovered that all puberty meant was that I would grow breasts, have periods, and become capable of having babies, I was hugely relieved. Compared to growing a new personality, those changes were trivial!
I have no trouble believing that a person who would find it unthinkable to commit the crime of rape while sober might do so while intoxicated.
I’m sorry you had to experience that, Marian. Great (but sad) post.
Unless a person is forced to take the drugs or alcohol under duress, then they are still responsible for their actions. I don’t care if the alcohol relaxed inhibitions and it was something they wouldn’t do sober.
It’s not like the person has a head injury or a brain tumor or some other affliction that they did not choose.
Sad in a way, @Pizzagirl, but on the other hand, I approached puberty with no qualms at all, unlike many of my friends, who were quite upset about the changes taking place in their bodies.
@Marian, that is sad and I, too, am sorry you experienced that growing up. Movies and TV show the happy, silly drunks, but the reality is there are people for whom large amounts of alcohol turn them into very mean drunks and they often have no understanding of their two personalities. I’ve known a few in our friends group…fortunately they are now non-drinkers including the one that took a swing at his wife of twenty years and several children in a local restaurant in our presence. it’s odd that we can talk about alcoholism as a disease…and yet people are loath to allow that as a sentencing factor, an irony to be sure. i would think any judge that can cause a person to stop drinking who has committed a crime while drinking has probably done the world a favor, but again I don’t know if abstaining from alcohol was on this young man’s “list” of court orders…I’d bet bucks it was.
Exactly! It’s not like he was tied down and the alcohol was forced on him. He chose to drink and he is (or should be) responsible for his actions even after he drank.
True, but he was convicted of crimes that most would consider functionally equivalent to rape, sexual penetration of unconscious victim and sexual penetration of intoxicated victim. The punishments for these crimes (3, 6, or 8 years in prison) are the same as for rape of unconscious victim and rape of intoxicated victim.
Here is the California Penal Code: http://leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=pen&codebody=&hits=20
261(a)(3) and 261(a)(4) are the dropped “rape” charges. 289(d) and 289(e) are the “sexual penetration” charges for which Turner was convicted. He was also convicted of 220(a)(1), which is assault with intent to commit rape or sexual penetration, with punishment of 2, 4, or 6 years in prison.
That may be what it appears on the surface
However, if one digs deeper into earlier periods of their lives or if the older adults who were mean/violent alcoholics later admitted the issues they kept hidden for decades in great detail in the process of coming to terms/owning the responsibility for the mean/violent behaviors as alcoholics like my friend did, there were very likely latent issues/inclinations which were hidden well from those who couldn’t have known those issues without knowing them well from a young age.
Most extended family members of the friend who had serious alcohol/anger management issues when under stress/alcohol had little/no idea of the true nature of her latent anger management issues. Especially younger ones who weren’t old enough to observe her in her teen/young adult years. And her parents and some siblings were either in denial or thought “she suddenly went crazy” when her anger issues/alcoholism snowballed.
I only knew about the root latent cases because of putting together what siblings who weren’t in denial/thought “she went crazy” mentioned about her younger years and she herself later admitted to me after going through rehab and owning her responsibility for the latent anger issues and alcoholism.
I am also concerned about the potential implications of how the idea that alcohol could “magically change personalities” could be manipulated by defense attorneys and family/friends of violent criminals like this former swimmer to argue the criminal had little/no responsibility for his/her actions and their negative effects on others. That has some seriously dangerous implications for our society’s efforts/abilities to hold criminals responsible for the very actions and negative consequences of their criminal conduct.