@dstark – Now we REALLY are getting far afield, but just to answer your question, the interest accrues only on the unpaid portion of the original judgment; it is not compounded. 
Now back to reactions to the lenient sentence!
@ucbalumnus
“Wouldn’t these types of crimes be what the sex offender registry is for, rather than the kinds of minor (non-sex-related) crimes that some states have thrown into the crimes that put people on the sex offender registry?”
I think what the poster was talking about is with the sex offenders list, should it remain permanently in place, or should there be a way to judge whether someone should be on it? So for example, let’s say you have a case where a person is convicted of non consensual sex (not involving forcible rape), when they are 18 or 20, should we keep them on the list forever? Right now, if convicted of anything related to a sex , my understanding is in many states you will end up on it forever…and is that necessarily fair? As opposed to let’s say someone who is a pedophile, where there is real reason to believe that they are always a threat…and in some states,a 16 year old boy having sex with a 15 year old girlfriend can be convicted of statutory rape and end up on this list pretty much forever.
In this particular case, should the offender be on the list for the rest of his life? Given the nature of the crime, does this mean this guy is a threat until the day he dies? Or is it reasonable to have him on it until he petitions and can show he isn’t a threat, and remove him? Without minimizing what this kid did, or the pain the victim had, does the nature of what he did make him a threat forever? If you have a case of drunken stupidity done when the kid was young, do you burden him forever? The sex offenders list is designed to protect people from sexual predators who are a threat, it is not supposed to be the equivalent of Javert chasing Jean Valjean forever, and I think should reflect the idea of being protection, not a perpetual punishment(not to mention the list is being used as a kind of scarlet letter by the morality police, like charging a 16 year old for having sex with a 15 year old girlfriend and having him end up on the list, or a couple who had sex in public or whatnot)
@Pizzagirl – do you mean in terms of a civil suit? In terms of a criminal case with an adult, it doesn’t make a difference. Voluntary intoxication – even if the intoxication is illegal-- is not an affirmative defense. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t come up or that juries don’t consider it, just that it’s not a recognized defense (like, for example, self-defense). Voluntary intoxication CAN be used to argue that the defendant wasn’t able to form a certain intent, but it’s never a complete defense. Involuntary intoxication can be.
@momofthreeboys, according to the attorneys here, a civil case is not a redo.
For me to say a victim shouldn’t sue in civil court is ridiculous. A victim should do what she wants.
This case reminds me a little, just a little, of the OJ case. The victims’ families were not happy with the outcome of the criminal case and then there was a civil case.
OJ lost the civil case and I think the families are happy about this. The last I heard, the victim’s families have gotten nothing from OJ. But the victims’ families feel that a tiny bit of justice was served.
6 months is really too low. This sentence could come back and bite Brock in the butt. If Brock got 3 years, and 1 1-2 years in prison because of good behavior, he might be better off.
Now with the 6 month verdict, millions of people have looked at his case. Millions who would never have looked at this case. There is a lot more publicity now than there ever would have been because of this sentence.
Agree musicprnt, not to mention the hysteria that befalls certain types of people who “think” they have a predatory sex offender living just a few blocks away and the guy is on the registry because at 18 , he and his 15 year old girlfriend got caught in 1992 having sex by her mother., he pled guilty to get no jail time and now he’s married, 42 and with a wife and 2 kids and the neighbor is hysterical…it happens but only in America…the lock em up forever society.
"do you mean in terms of a civil suit? In terms of a criminal case with an adult, it doesn’t make a difference. "
Yes, sorry. I meant in terms of a hypothetical civil case of the girl suing Stanford and/or the fraternity for serving Brock alcohol (or, not adequately monitoring alcohol availability) when he shouldn’t have been served as he was underage. Kind of like the victim of a drunk driver suing the bar that served the drunk driver the alcohol and didn’t stop him from getting in a car. I’m curious what the lawyers have to say on this.
We have attorneys posting in this thread. @HarvestMoon1 has already stated that a person may be able to get off the sex registry.
Students listed on a sex registry can go to college.
Here is one link…
Yes, I know we have attorneys posting on this thread. That’s why I’m asking for their opinion. We non-lawyers can speculate but that’s useless.
his sisters >>>>>
These people have daughters and can’t imagine how they would feel if one of them had been violated like that?! SMH.
I have read lots of articles about this case, but I couldn’t bring myself to read the letter the victim read to her attacker. That was a mistake. If you have made the same mistake, here is the link again: https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/heres-the-powerful-letter-the-stanford-victim-read-to-her-ra?utm_term=.wg1MyDeDx#.imBABLJLb Here also are the excerpts that brought me more context than anything I’ve read on this thread.
You don’t know me, but you’ve been inside me, and that’s why we’re here today.
My clothes were confiscated and I stood naked while the nurses held a ruler to various abrasions on my body and photographed them.
I had multiple swabs inserted into my vagina and anus, needles for shots, pills, had a Nikon pointed right into my spread legs. I had long, pointed beaks inside me and had my vagina smeared with cold, blue paint to check for abrasions.
On that morning, all that I was told was that I had been found behind a dumpster, potentially penetrated by a stranger, and that I should get retested for HIV because results don’t always show up immediately.
That day we drove home and for hours in silence my younger sister held me.
I was not ready to tell my boyfriend or parents that actually, I may have been raped behind a dumpster, but I don’t know by who or when or how. If I told them, I would see the fear on their faces, and mine would multiply by tenfold, so instead I pretended the whole thing wasn’t real.
I tried to push it out of my mind, but it was so heavy I didn’t talk, I didn’t eat, I didn’t sleep, I didn’t interact with anyone. After work, I would drive to a secluded place to scream.
For over a week after the incident, I didn’t get any calls or updates about that night or what happened to me.
One day, I was at work, scrolling through the news on my phone, and came across an article. In it, I read and learned for the first time about how I was found unconscious, with my hair disheveled, long necklace wrapped around my neck, bra pulled out of my dress, dress pulled off over my shoulders and pulled up above my waist, that I was butt naked all the way down to my boots, legs spread apart, and had been penetrated by a foreign object by someone I did not recognize.
I read something that I will never forgive; I read that according to him, I liked it. I liked it. Again, I do not have words for these feelings.
And then, at the bottom of the article, after I learned about the graphic details of my own sexual assault, the article listed his swimming times.
He admitted to wanting to hook up with someone. I was the wounded antelope of the herd, completely alone and vulnerable, physically unable to fend for myself, and he chose me. Sometimes I think, if I hadn’t gone, then this never would’ve happened. But then I realized, it would have happened, just to somebody else.
I thought there’s no way this is going to trial; there were witnesses, there was dirt in my body, he ran but was caught. He’s going to settle, formally apologize, and we will both move on. Instead, I was told he hired a powerful attorney, expert witnesses, private investigators who were going to try and find details about my personal life to use against me, find loopholes in my story to invalidate me and my sister, in order to show that this sexual assault was in fact a misunderstanding.
I was warned, because he now knows you don’t remember, he is going to get to write the script. He can say whatever he wants and no one can contest it. I had no power, I had no voice, I was defenseless.
Instead of taking time to heal, I was taking time to recall the night in excruciating detail, in order to prepare for the attorney’s questions that would be invasive, aggressive, and designed to steer me off course, to contradict myself, my sister, phrased in ways to manipulate my answers. This was a game of strategy, as if I could be tricked out of my own worth.
How old are you? How much do you weigh? What did you eat that day? Well what did you have for dinner? Who made dinner? Did you drink with dinner? No, not even water? When did you drink? How much did you drink? What container did you drink out of? Who gave you the drink? How much do you usually drink? Who dropped you off at this party? At what time? But where exactly? What were you wearing? Why were you going to this party? What’ d you do when you got there? Are you sure you did that? But what time did you do that? What does this text mean? Who were you texting? When did you urinate? Where did you urinate? With whom did you urinate outside? Was your phone on silent when your sister called? Do you remember silencing it? Really because on page 53 I’d like to point out that you said it was set to ring. Did you drink in college? You said you were a party animal? How many times did you black out? Did you party at frats? Are you serious with your boyfriend? Are you sexually active with him? When did you start dating? Would you ever cheat? Do you have a history of cheating? What do you mean when you said you wanted to reward him? Do you remember what time you woke up? Were you wearing your cardigan? What color was your cardigan? Do you remember any more from that night? No? Okay, well, we’ll let Brock fill it in.
CONTINUED
And then it came time for him to testify and I learned what it meant to be revictimized.
According to him, the only reason we were on the ground was because I fell down. Note; if a girl falls down help her get back up. If she is too drunk to even walk and falls down, do not mount her, hump her, take off her underwear, and insert your hand inside her vagina.
Two guys on bikes noticed I wasn’t moving in the dark and had to tackle you. How did you not notice while on top of me?
I don’t sleep when I think about the way it could have gone if the two guys had never come. What would have happened to me? That’s what you’ll never have a good answer for, that’s what you can’t explain even after a year.
To sit under oath and inform all of us, that yes I wanted it, yes I permitted it, and that you are the true victim attacked by Swedes for reasons unknown to you is appalling, is demented, is selfish, is damaging. It is enough to be suffering. It is another thing to have someone ruthlessly working to diminish the gravity of validity of this suffering.
Alcohol is not an excuse. Is it a factor? Yes. But alcohol was not the one who stripped me, fingered me, had my head dragging against the ground, with me almost fully naked. Regretting drinking is not the same as regretting sexual assault. We were both drunk, the difference is I did not take off your pants and underwear, touch you inappropriately, and run away.
Again, you were not wrong for drinking. Everyone around you was not sexually assaulting me. You were wrong for doing what nobody else was doing, which was pushing your erect dick in your pants against my naked, defenseless body concealed in a dark area, where partygoers could no longer see or protect me, and my own sister could not find me.
Why am I still explaining this.
Lastly you said, I want to show people that one night of drinking can ruin a life. A life, one life, yours, you forgot about mine. Let me rephrase for you, I want to show people that one night of drinking can ruin two lives. You and me. You are the cause, I am the effect.
I am not just a drunk victim at a frat party found behind a dumpster, while you are the All¬ American swimmer at a top university, innocent until proven guilty, with so much at stake.
It is embarrassing how feeble I feel, how timidly I move through life, always guarded, ready to defend myself, ready to be angry.
You bought me a ticket to a planet where I lived by myself. I didn’t want anyone’s pity and am still learning to accept victim as part of my identity.
When I see my younger sister hurting, when she is unable to keep up in school, when she is deprived of joy, when she is not sleeping, when she is crying so hard on the phone she is barely breathing, telling me over and over again she is sorry for leaving me alone that night, sorry sorry sorry, when she feels more guilt than you, then I do not forgive you.
You do not get to shrug your shoulders and be confused anymore. You do not get to pretend that there were no red flags. You have been convicted of violating me, intentionally, forcibly, sexually, with malicious intent, and all you can admit to is consuming alcohol. Do not talk about the sad way your life was upturned because alcohol made you do bad things. Figure out how to take responsibility for your own conduct.
When I read the probation officer’s report, I was in disbelief, consumed by anger which eventually quieted down to profound sadness. My statements have been slimmed down to distortion and taken out of context. I fought hard during this trial and will not have the outcome minimized by a probation officer who attempted to evaluate my current state and my wishes in a fifteen minute conversation.
Had Brock admitted guilt and remorse and offered to settle early on, I would have considered a lighter sentence, respecting his honesty, grateful to be able to move our lives forward. Instead he took the risk of going to trial, added insult to injury and forced me to relive the hurt as details about my personal life and sexual assault were brutally dissected before the public.
Someone who cannot take full accountability for his actions does not deserve a mitigating sentence.
The seriousness of rape has to be communicated clearly, we should not create a culture that suggests we learn that rape is wrong through trial and error.
He is a lifetime sex registrant. That doesn’t expire. Just like what he did to me doesn’t expire, doesn’t just go away after a set number of years. It stays with me, it’s part of my identity, it has forever changed the way I carry myself, the way I live the rest of my life.
I sleep with two bicycles that I drew taped above my bed to remind myself there are heroes in this story. That we are looking out for one another.
As the author Anne Lamott once wrote, “Lighthouses don’t go running all over an island looking for boats to save; they just stand there shining.” Although I can’t save every boat, I hope that by speaking today, you absorbed a small amount of light, a small knowing that you can’t be silenced, a small satisfaction that justice was served, a small assurance that we are getting somewhere, and a big, big knowing that you are important, unquestionably, you are untouchable, you are beautiful, you are to be valued, respected, undeniably, every minute of every day, you are powerful and nobody can take that away from you. To girls everywhere, I am with you.
As a parent, this whole event horrifies me. What is happening on college campuses?? Is this scenario more common than in the past or do we just hear more about these crimes now? Or is it some combination of both?
Realistically how much would a civil suit bring in–are there deep pockets here? Not Turner’s family; maybe the fraternity or Stanford if lawyers could show they were somehow negligent. If the young woman victim were my daughter, I would want her to focus on moving forward and trying to heal and get on with her life.
Well, I can tell you how it works in my world. It doesn’t matter whether Turner is on the sex offenders list or not to me.
As an employer, before we make an offer we get permission to do a background check (plus Google, social media, etc). Felony and misdemeanor convictions all show up, plus most things in the public record. Even if a conviction is “expunged” there are often traces of what happened in someone’s background.
Almost all of the time almost nothing serious shows up other than speeding tickets and the like. But I can tell you that if a rape conviction (or traces of an expunged one) showed up, then there’s no way we’d hire someone. I don’t really care what the circumstances are, how long ago it occurred, or how “reformed” the person seems to be.
I. Simply. Don’t. Care.
I won’t hire these people, either professionally or personally. I have enough experience to know that someone who’s able to commit these sorts of acts has a strong likelihood of doing something bad again. Not 100% certain, but it’s likely enough that I’m not willing to take the chance.
I’ve learned that it’s so easy to get fooled by people, and it’s always much better to believe what the data is telling you, and something like a rape / armed robbery / murder conviction is about as strong a data point as I can imagine. It’s easy to get fooled … the impressions you form or the “judgments” that you make about people are often very flawed … “he seems like such a nice guy … it was completely out of character … it was a freak occurrence / youthful mistake and she’d never do it again”. BS.
Rape conviction - Reject. Caught selling drugs in your youth - Reject. Beat someone up 10 years ago - Reject. Caught shoplifting 15 years ago - Reject. Filed for bankruptcy - Reject. Failed your drug test - Reject.
We might ask you if there are any mitigating circumstances that would make us change our mind. Maybe that way the guy who was convicted of statutory rape at age 16 for having consensual sex with their 15 year old girlfriend could explain what happened. Most likely though, we’ll just tell you we changed our minds and we’re not proceeding with the offer. End of discussion.
Does that make us the morality police? Not in my book. It’s just smart business. Statistically speaking, the odds of someone like this doing something bad in the future are just too high. I can’t predict what form the bad behavior will take, but I know the odds of something occurring are too high for me. Am I “discriminating” against former felons? Honestly, I couldn’t care less. There are enough great candidates without potential fatal character flaws whom we can hire.
The only “excuse” I’m really interesting in is if you can prove you were innocent.
At least in my world, very few people are going to touch Brock Turner with a 50 foot pole for the rest of his life even if he only ends up serving a few months in jail.
If we are going to call a 20 year old man “a kid who made a drunken mistake”, we ought to be prepared to apply that to multiple people who commit their first violent felony at 20 while drunk or high. Trust me, there are many of them in state prison right now. I suspect most people aren’t willing to do that – for whatever reason, like the judge, they found this particular 20 year old man more sympathetic. I don’t see anyone here proposing comprehensive reform to make sure first time violent felons serve minimal time – if there was a consistent policy message here about rehabilitation of first time offenders, even violent offenders, I would feel differently. But I don’t see this. Also, it’s important to remember that this young man fled the scene. He knew what he was doing was wrong, even though he was drunk. I’m quite sure that’s why the jury did not believe him that this young woman had a momentary bit of consciousness where she consented to sex beside a dumpster.
Can we call him a thug? (I would.)
If my son got into trouble, I would do everything I could to defend him, but if he was found guilty I would not do what the father did and try and weasel out of the situation, or more, make the victim look like the guilty party. >>>>>>>>
Same here. I would retreat, close the blinds, lock the doors, turn off the phones and batten down the hatches for a bit. And cry. A lot. I don’t know if I could even look at my son. I honestly don’t think I could be around him. I’d be so distraught and just plain ill.
I have three sons. From the time they started going through puberty, we advised them about assault and how you just can’t do that, no matter how much someone might piss you off. Defend yourself if you are struck first but never, ever assault someone. It is against the law. I am sorry to say I have always assumed that all men do realize what a brutal and violent crime rape is. I wouldn’t think this has to be explained to them, especially in a home where sex has been discussed and the preferred outlook is that it is a loving experience between two consenting people, not something one should be doing, going from hook up to hook up. We have only one son who attended college away. The one thing I did tell him time and again about drinking and partying: “know when to say when”. He’s not the type to embarrass himself like some do. I know he has had fun along the way, but he is just way too practical, for lack of a better word.
Mds is Mr. Impulsive but honest to God, any one of my three sons would have set in to calling for help and helping a girl they found unconscious like that. It blows my mind that even under the influence, this kid’s reaction was to freaking rape her!
Sorry for rambling.
The two Good Samaritans names have been released! I’m really glad that the survivor will be able to see the faces and learn the names of the men who saved her. For those who didn’t read the letter, she has two bicycles under her bed to represent the two Swedish bikers.
“As a parent, this whole event horrifies me. What is happening on college campuses?? Is this scenario more common than in the past or do we just hear more about these crimes now? Or is it some combination of both?”
I think we heard variants. Took place in a dorm room or fraternity bedroom, not behind a dumpster. Girl wasn’t all the way to passed out, but was too drunk to consent. Little/no physical evidence beyond evidence sex occurred. Girl/guy had some pre-existing relationship or had flirted in the past. And of course no witnesses to observe/verify, thus making it devolve into he-said-she-said.
Brock Turner deserves everything he got and so much worse. There’s a petition to recall the judge I hope you guys all sign it!
Eventually in these threads we get around to parenting, and while I believe a lot of parenting outcome is just plain luck, it seems obvious to me a son raised by al2simon is taught to treat women very differently than a son raised in the Turner household. There is a completely different set of expectations.
However, somewhere I read there was a sexual assault awareness program as part of Stanford’s orientation that, presumably, Turner attended. So it’s not as though he was living in a vacuum. Lots of kids have to overcome their home environments.
eta: I have been worrying all day about Turner’s friend who doesn’t believe you can be raped except by a stranger who kidnaps you. I hope she is so very lucky.