Former Stanford Swimmer Convicted of Rape

[dstark]

@jym626,

https://www.change.org/p/california-state-house-recall-judge-aaron-persky

470,000+ signatures.

[DonnaL]

There are very few states where he would have gotten much much more prison time given a first offense, a clean record and the actual circumstances of the case.

momofthreeboys, do you have any evidence at all for this statement? It seems preposterous on its face, given the sentencing guidelines. And I’d love to know what “actual circumstances” you mean. You do remember that his story was rejected and he was convicted, right?

Was it that she had too much to drink? Really?

Or maybe it was this, from the victim’s statement?

The night after it happened, he said he didn’t know my name, said he wouldn’t be able to identify my face in a lineup, didn’t mention any dialogue between us, no words, only dancing and kissing. Dancing is a cute term; was it snapping fingers and twirling dancing, or just bodies grinding up against each other in a crowded room? I wonder if kissing was just faces sloppily pressed up against each other? When the detective asked if he had planned on taking me back to his dorm, he said no. When the detective asked how we ended up behind the dumpster, he said he didn’t know. He admitted to kissing other girls at that party, one of whom was my own sister who pushed him away. He admitted to wanting to hook up with someone. I was the wounded antelope of the herd, completely alone and vulnerable, physically unable to fend for myself, and he chose me. Sometimes I think, if I hadn’t gone, then this never would’ve happened. But then I realized, it would have happened, just to somebody else. You were about to enter four years of access to drunk girls and parties, and if this is the foot you started off on, then it is right you did not continue. The night after it happened, he said he thought I liked it because I rubbed his back. A back rub.

Or this?

Never mentioned me voicing consent, never mentioned us even speaking, a back rub. One more time, in public news, I learned that my ass and vagina were completely exposed outside, my breasts had been groped, fingers had been jabbed inside me along with pine needles and debris, my bare skin and head had been rubbing against the ground behind a dumpster, while an erect freshman was humping my half naked, unconscious body. But I don’t remember, so how do I prove I didn’t like it.

Or this?

According to him, the only reason we were on the ground was because I fell down. Note; if a girl falls down help her get back up. If she is too drunk to even walk and falls down, do not mount her, hump her, take off her underwear, and insert your hand inside her vagina. If a girl falls down help her up. If she is wearing a cardigan over her dress don’t take it off so that you can touch her breasts. Maybe she is cold, maybe that’s why she wore the cardigan.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/heres-the-powerful-letter-the-stanford-victim-read-to-her-ra?utm_term=.grNr8ry8Ob#.pt0L3L53Z9

Are these the circumstances that lead you to say there are “very few states” where his conviction on three counts of felony sexual assault would result in more than six months imprisonment in a county jail?

[albert69]

@TheAtlantic Point taken. I agree that race does make a difference in some cases. I don’t know if it’s as widespread as some media sources (such as CNN) would like to portray. I’m not saying it isn’t, I’m just not sure. If you have studied studies on the issue, then I respect your opinion. Thanks for the clarification.

[Pizzagirl]

The sister thing breaks my heart - she was there with her sister, and at a certain point (when she went outside) her sister couldn’t find her, and of course the sister feels guilty (not that she should, but it’s natural) that she was still at the party while this was going on. When the sister saw the police, she thought they were there to break up the party, not knowing that this was because the victim was passed out. (This is all from the original police report, found in the footnotes of wikipedia.)

[Pizzagirl]

“I was wondering as well. If she passed out at the party, I would think someone would have noticed him carrying/dragging her out of the house and to the spot.”

Police report suggests she walked out with him under her own steam.

[GnocchiB]

Interview with the survivor yesterday.

The victim of a sexual assault by a former Stanford University swimmer said on Monday she was “overwhelmed and speechless” at the deluge of support for her

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/06/stanford-sexual-assault-judge-recall

ETA: The rapist’s childhood friend who wrote the letter to the judge supporting him/victim blaming is in a band with her sisters and is experiencing fallout from the letter:

UPDATE: According to Gothamist, now all of the band’s five Brooklyn-area shows have been canceled. One Northside Festival venue, Bar Matchless, released a statement saying: “Good English will not be playing Matchless. We do not support victim blaming or rape apologists of any kind.” Later in the day, the Dayton Music, Art & Film Festival, in the band’s own hometown, also axed an upcoming performance by Good English and released a strongly worded announcment.
https://www.yahoo.com/music/indie-band-under-fire-after-drummer-writes-164048683.html

[jym626]

@dstark
What is the likelihood that they can get the judge removed?

So sad that her sister lost track of her. Cannot imagine the guilt she must feel. This poor family.

[mom2collegekids]

<<<
According to him, the only reason we were on the ground was because I fell down.
<<<<

Ugh…I hadn’t seen this before. While we still don’t know exactly what happened next, the fact that she fell down and he wasn’t a gentleman …helping her to safely get where she needed to be…just screams that he was determined to “get some” that night (as previously mentioned) and he wasn’t going to let a little thing like a fully willing partner get in the way.

I don’t know any young men who wouldn’t have made it their priority to make sure she got home safely that night. This part alone screams such a personal short-coming that even if he didn’t rape her, it shows what a low life he was.

People stop and help a sick or injured animal that they see…and he wouldn’t help a woman who fell down…and instead assaults her?

[dstark]

Gnocchi, that is one powerful link. Makes me want to sign the petition.
The Judge doesn’t look good in that link.
I am happy the victim feels her support.

Jym626, I don’t know. That is beyond my pay grade.

[nottelling]

So, I have a question. Now with all this public outcry, the threats of violence against the judge and his family, and the threat to mount a recall election 90 days after he is re-elected in November, do people here think the judge should just issue an order saying “I’ve reconsidered my prior sentence and I sentence Turner to 2 (or 3) years in prison” (the sentence that had been advocated by the Stanford law professor who is leading the recall effort and who is a friend of the victim)? Assume there is a legally proper way he can do so (I’m not sure there is).

I personally think it would be a sad day for our judicial system if a judge were to cave to political pressure to change a ruling, but maybe that’s what he should do. Would people have MORE respect for this judge in that case?

[vonlost]

Judge Persky said “I think he will not be a danger to others.” Weird since Turner actually demonstrated his way of treating women. Did the judge see someone he could identify with? Would the sentence have been normal if Persky saw someone quite different from himself? Why give any jail time if not being a danger to others is cited? Why not give a normal sentence if jail time is appropriate?

[mom2collegekids]

^^^. I’m guessing that the judge is naively thinking that the kid will be home and away from the atmosphere (drinking, parties, women). I don’t think the judge was thinking, “well, I did the same 25 years ago.”

[GnocchiB]

New statement from rapist’s childhood friend, released to try to limit the damage (to herself and her band) from her original letter (scroll to bottom of the linked page).

http://pitchfork.com/news/65968-northside-festival-drops-band-after-drummer-supports-stanford-rapist/

It makes me wonder what the character witnesses on behalf of Owen Labrie would say if they had been forced to re-evaulate/re-state their support of his “high moral character” after all of the horrible information from the sentencing report was made public in the St. Paul’s rape case.

Regarding the judge being removed or re-visiting his sentence - I agree with the poster who noted that judges should not be swayed by public opinion, especially in cases like this when people are up in arms. Although it’s no comfort to the survivor, perhaps in the long term this case will enlighten those jurists like Judge Persky who aren’t fully aware of their biases towards certain genders/races/SES.

[romanigypsyeyes]

^ Good. There should be more backlash against people who support rape culture.

By denying them the opportunity to play, the clubs/orgs/whatever they are are sending a clear message that this will not be tolerated.THIS is how we get rid of rape culture in this country. We don’t ignore it, we don’t normalize it, and we treat it like the social contagion that it is.

[mom2and]

From a Slate article on the case stating the strong deterrent effect of getting caught on young sex offenders and issues with sex offender registries. As you can see, momofthree, Turner’s sentence is less than what most rapists receive. But the article also points out that rehabilitation is highly effective, especially with young sex ofenders.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2016/06/brock_turner_sexual_assault_case_and_sex_offender_registries.html

But studies show that young sex offenders are good candidates for rehabilitation programs. Their brains are not fully developed until their mid-20s, so they usually don’t fully recognize the potential consequences of their actions, unlike older offenders. “Most teenagers, and by most I mean 95 percent, don’t reoffend sexually once they’re caught,” Elizabeth Letourneau, director of the Moore Center for the Prevention of Child Sexual Abuse, told then–Salon reporter Irin Carmon in the wake of the famous 2013 rape case in Steubenville, Ohio. “Being caught has an important deterrent effect.”

There’s a strong case to be made against the social value of most prison sentences—people who’ve been incarcerated face lifelong barriers to recovery and reintegration into society—but the fact remains that Turner’s sentence is far lower than most perpetrators incur for similar crimes. He was convicted of three felonies, each of which could have carried at least a year of prison time. According to a Bureau of Justice Statistics report, in 1997, the average sexual assault prison sentence was 6½ years, with three years served. At the time, the average sentence had stayed stable for nearly two decades, while time served was growing. In Turner’s case, the probation officer and judge took into account the fact that he had lost a swimming scholarship at a prestigious university and counted that in his favor—a clear example of how Turner’s privilege granted him clemency where others would have found rigid law and order. Judges have broad autonomy when it comes to sentencing, paving the way for them to sentence black federal offenders to prison times an average of 10 percent longer than white offenders with similar arrest records and crimes.

Multiple studies have shown rehabilitation programs to be particularly successful with juvenile sex offenders. This raises the very likely possibility that sex offenses perpetrated by adolescents could be prevented with early intervention and behavior-modification training in schools.

[LionsMum]

@mom2and Thank you for posting this. It confirms that his sentence was unusual. Re the rehab, I would feel differently about this sentence if it were part of a recognized rehabilitation program that all offenders were eligible for. A number of jurisdictions have such programs for first time drug offenders. You get a lesser sentence so long as you complete your program successfully. That’s not the case here, and as far as I know, the judge didn’t even recommend any counseling. And the reasons cited for the low sentence – he’s already lost things like his athletic scholarship – that’s just insulting. A poor kid who is not in college does the same thing and is a first time offender – does the judge throw the book at him because he hasn’t lost his college scholarship?

[Pizzagirl]

I wonder if there’s a difference in rehabilitation success when the sexual offense was made while the person was sober versus when the sexual offense was made when the person was under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

[jonri]

@mom2collegekids If you are a small company and don’t hire an ex-con, you probably will just keep your mouth shut as to the reasons if it is in fact the conviction. However, a larger company that asks about convictions and/or does a background check and never hires any ex-cons may end up in serious trouble with the state.

Here is a summary of New York Law. http://www.labor.ny.gov/careerservices/ace/employers.shtm

[saillakeerie]

^^No idea, but you would like to think so, right?

[intparent]

There was a case in Montana where a rapist was resentenced a few years ago, but it was ordered by a higher court. A truly horrific case. I remembered it when someone asked if the judge can give a new sentence.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/26/justice/montana-rape-sentence/