foul ball in school parking lot shatters window

Parent Cafe
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<p>“If the cafeteria got a bad bunch of dairy products in and my son got sick; NO I WOULDN’T BE LOOKING TO TAKE THEM TO COURT.”</p>

<p>But, just to take this example, if you knew that the school had insurance to cover costs if such unfortunate events occurred, would you decline to make a claim? There’s a difference between suing people for unforeseen accidents, and taking advantage of insurance arrangements that are designed to prevent individuals from absorbing all the costs of random risks.</p>

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<p>Whoa Nellie…Christcorp. The OP’s family has NO intention remotely of suing the school or taking any legal actions. They are asking who is liable for the damages. They will pay if they have to but it was worth asking about. Further, it is important to bring awareness of this because this was preventable. The school might raise the fencing or netting or erect signs to not park in certain zones after school hours, etc. In any case, I am sure in some written policy, it indicates who is liable for damages. One party’s insurance would cover this (of course the OP has a high deductible and if it is their insurance, then the boy will have to pay out of pocket and so be it). It is worth looking into whose insurance pays in this situation, that’s all some are saying.</p>

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<p>doubleplay…stray softballs and soccer balls and field hockey balls in gym class can also damage a car or hit a bystander in an adjacent area and cause injury. It is not just baseballs that have potential to cause damage or injury.</p>

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<p>…someone forgot to take their meds today…</p>

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<p>soozie; I didn’t say, or mean to imply, that the OP would do such a thing. I saw the implication from Kluge that it would be an option. I’m saying it shouldn’t be.</p>

<p>Hunt; I understand your analogy, but I don’t think it’s a good example. I doubt very much that a school has insurance against food poisoning. Now, does the school have insurance for liability against injuries? That depends. Not every place. Many state/county/city governments are “SELF INSURED”. I.e. The state department of transportation does NOT HAVE AUTOMOBILE insurance on their fleet of vehicles. They are self insured. They pay out of the coffers if they need to pay out money. Most government agencies are similar. The school district and such are part of state/county/city government. Many places, they wouldn’t have insurance. They would be self insured out of tax dollars. That’s why license plates for busses, police cars, fire trucks, etc… are not paid for. License fees for registration is a TAX. You don’t use tax dollars to pay taxes. There’s also a lot of large companies that are self insured and don’t carry insurance. It would cost more per month for premiums on 50,000 employees than it would be to just pay damages when required.</p>

<p>Now, a private school and such could have an insurance policy for such things because they aren’t capable of being self insured. Those premiums come from the parents paying tuition. Each school would be different. One of the private schools I went to for a couple of years prior to going back to public, had a clause in the contract. The parent was required to maintain medical insurance and such for all their children. The school wouldn’t be responsible for any personal injury suits. The only suits could be negligence and similar to hold the school accountable. Of course, this was not intended for accidents. </p>

<p>Again, I would have to check with the schools, but most are self insured through the city/county/state through taxes.</p>

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<p>Calm down people. Glass usually has no deductible. Foul balls hit parked cars all the time. If the insurance doesn’t cover it, windshields are a couple hundred bucks at most. Bad luck, but also tough luck. Get a new one and move on.</p>

<p>Anyone who would sue a school because their car got hit by a foul ball needs to have their head examined. (Not aimed at the OP, who never said anything about suing).</p>

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<p>I suspect the 4 ft. fence is not just to keep people out, but to keep balls from hitting people who are standing outside of the fence watching the game. Most fields I’ve been to have 4 ft. fences out to at least 1st and 3rd base lines so as to protect onlookers from straight on foul balls. And yes, netting is very expensive; I think the better alternative is to put up signs around the ballfield that parking there after school hours is done at one’s own risk. I think most schools have enough parking available after school when most students leave that people can move their cars. And at our high school, they don’t play sports anymore. Phys ed is phys ed, not sports. They do cardio and weight training. So the issue of foul balls during the day is not pertinent for us.</p>

<p>As an aside, any time I’m visiting some place (park or school) and it’s outdoor sports season, I’m very careful about where I park my car.</p>

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<p>I am curious. I grew up in suburbia on a quiet residential street where kids played outside, including on the street. Let’s say they are playing ball. The ball goes where they did not intend and it hits a parked car in someone’s driveway a bit away from where they were playing (travels far). Who should pay the damages? Just wonderin’.</p>

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<p>teriwtt…I know I am diverting from the issue in this thread but picking up on what you wrote…I wish our gym classes were like yours and I think they should be. I think they have actually made some changes in that direction since my kids graduated. When my younger D, who is now 19, took gym class as a freshman and was 13/14 (about 5’2"), she was in a gym class that was almost all boys and the boys were almost all seniors and these particular boys were almost all on varsity sports teams like the soccer team. She hated it. She had to play soccer and other sports with them. Very inappropriate and didn’t really do what Phys Ed classes should be aiming at accomplishing. It was poor for self esteem potentially for a girl, let alone not too safe. At the end of the year, my very articulate daughter who writes very well, wrote an extensive evaluation of the course and spoke to these issues and the gym teacher, who was new and very good and actually my other D’s soccer coach, took the feedback well and actually is someone who wanted to change how gym was handled at our HS and I think he has done so since my kids left.</p>

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<p>* am curious. I grew up in suburbia on a quiet residential street where kids played outside, including on the street. Let’s say they are playing ball. The ball goes where they did not intend and it hits a parked car in someone’s driveway a bit away from where they were playing (travels far). Who should pay the damages? Just wonderin’.*</p>

<p>Streets are not ballfields.
If the window of your home or your car is broken while it is parked at home, then whomever cause the window to be broken would be liable.</p>

<p>At least it would be the neighborly thing to do.
Even kids playing in a street- should be taught common sense</p>

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<p>As did I; more recently though ;)</p>

<p>We played hockey on our driveways and baseball in the backyard. Sometimes we’d play basketball on the driveway too. I can only remember one time where we got in trouble for anything we did. Now, we were smart about it and didn’t have much get broken from what I recall. If we broke something, we would have paid to fix it. Our neighborhood wasn’t a ball diamond and it wasn’t a hockey rink. We were intruding into space more set up for other purposes.</p>

<p>If you see a ball diamond, I would hope you recognize that baseball or softball is PROBABLY played there and that foul balls are a good possibility, especially the longer you park there…</p>

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<p>We have weight training as a specific class. Also, our regular PE does some HRM training and some machine weight equipment, but they do a lot of sports and other activities. I wish they’d go to strictly fitness because most of the kids don’t care about the sport going on anyway.</p>

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<p>That’s interesting. Our high school PE (the regular class) is broken up boys and girls. Pretty much the only time they do stuff together is for pickleball/ping pong/bowling time. Other than that, it’s two separate classes.</p>

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<p>I am not sure who is liable in the school ballfield case with the school parking lot adjacent to it. I do admire the OP’s son for advocating and asking about it in a mature way to find out who is liable given the situation. I don’t know the outcome of that but I also admire the principal for saying he would look into it and not simply dismissing this student’s inquiry. Also, no matter who ends up paying, hopefully it has brought some attention to this situation which may affect others down the line (perhaps more seriously such as personal injury) and some actions toward prevention may be put in place such as making announcements at school to not park near the fields once classes dismiss and/or erect signs that to park near the field, you assume all risks, and/or add higher fencing if the field was designed to be adjacent to student parking.</p>

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<p>hops_scout…While I agree that you have to think about where you park…I will mention again that at our HS, students must park in an assigned space and my kids’ space was directly bordering the playing field (no fencing on it but it was used for soccer, but we have some parking next to a softball field too). I guess in such a situation, the thing to do would be to move the car after classes get out. </p>

<p>As far as the gym classes, I think (and hope) they have made changes to them since my kids went through. It was sorely needed.</p>

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<p>I’d be interested to see a picture of the set up in this situation… 150 feet between the fence and the parking lot and an unknown distance between homeplate and the fence. That is a pretty good amount of space at most angles off of the field.</p>

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<p>My son played baseball for a number of years. All the diamonds we went to clearly had signs posted that you were taking a risk in parking in certain areas.
At the high school parking is far enough away that it wouldn’t be a problem. I think that at most schools there is probably something written into the parking permit process that says the school is not liable for anything that happens to your car.</p>

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The part you don’t get, ChristCorp, is that there’s no windfall for anyone here - a loss has been suffered; the only question is who ultimately pays for it - the school or the student? Under your theory of lack of accountability for one’s actions, the loss always stays with the guy who gets hurt or damaged. I don’t think that’s right; I don’t think it’s fair, and I don’t think it’s just. If a person is injured through his own fault or carelessness, fine. But if you suffer a loss due to my negligence, I don’t have a right to make you pay that cost because of my actions. Money is being taken away from the kid who owned the car. It may be fair that it is, depending on the circumstances, but it also may be fair that the school should bear the loss in this case instead.</p>

<p>Real life in my neighborhood: some years back my son was goofing around with a wiffle ball and a plastic toy golf club. He hit the ball with the club and it curved off and hit a neighbor’s window at just the right angle, at the edge, and cracked it. I had my son go and tell the neighbor when they got home, and offer to pay to repair the window, or “work it off” with chores. The neighbor chose a few car washes and we were good. But if the neighbor had insisted on full reimbursement (as a different neighbor did with a different neighbor a few years later) they’re morally and legally entitled to it. It wasn’t their fault that their window was broken; it was my son’s responsibility. </p>

<p>**Accountability. ** You claim to honor it and then every thing you write repudiates it. :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>I had not intended to post again until this matter was resolved, but since some issues keep coming up, I could not resist providing some additional info:</p>

<p>1.
There are no signs at the field or in the parking lot. Apparently at one time there were signs, but they were removed for some reason. (I have no idea why, and would be curious to know why, but the athletic director told my son this today.)
I actually do not think this point is that significant, as I do concur that a ballfield is clearly there – and baseball is known to be played on the field!</p>

<p>**2. **
The paper my son signed for the parking permit makes no reference to liability regarding damage to the car. Again, I do not think this is a major deal one way or the other, but I am just providing this info.</p>

<p>3.
My son checked the student handbook and there is nothing addressing this issue there.</p>

<p>4.
The athletic director has asked my son to obtain some estimates. At this point there is no decision or commitment on how this will be handled, and we would need estimates in any event assuming we are repairing the glass, so this simply makes sense. But apparently a reimbursement in this case is being considered.</p>

<p>5.
The coach saw my son today and told him he had conveyed to the principal how impressed he was with how my son has handled this. So it seems they appreciate that there was no anger or frustration expressed – simply a “How do we handle this?” inquiry.</p>

<p>6.
My earlier statement that the car was parked 150 feet from the fence was in error. My son said it was more like 50 feet from the fence (I had misheard him - my error) - and the third row in (the second column of cars in, as each column in the interior of the lot has two rows and of course there is driving space between them).</p>

<p>7.
As I said in post # 1, **all **we are asking is, “How should this be handled?” We have no intention of making a federal case out of this. It was simply something I figured others in the CC community might have experience with and could fill us in on.</p>

<p>Believe me, if this is** the** vehicular accident in my son’s experience, I am VERY grateful. This is a “nit” compared to so many of the issues involving teens and cars.
No person was injured. No significant harm was done.
Perhaps some signs will now be restored.</p>

<p>**May all our accidents be such minor ones! **:)</p>

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<p>It was an accident. Damages were incurred, it’s why people have insurance.</p>

<p>Although, I think there is a difference in player responsibility between being on a school baseball team playing on a regulated field vs. playing wiffle ball in the backyard and hitting someones window…</p>

<p>The OP said the school is “looking into it”…if they want, they can reimburse the student for the incidental damage. They’ll probably spend a few hundred dollars to hoist a net as well.</p>

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<p>Just to throw another twist into the scenario - what if the ball were hit into the parking lot because the coach decided to move batting practice into the outfield so the infielders could practice their fielding, and he underestimated how far a batter might pull an inside pitch foul? In other words, a decision was made to use the field in a different manner than it was designed for, creating an elevated risk of damage? Anyone’s thinking change if that’s the reason for the errant ball?</p>

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<p>^ Not in my mind…it’s still an area where baseballs are expected to be thrown.</p>

<p>But I’m sure we could pay some lawyer handsomely to probe for the right jury…:rolleyes:</p>