France, Spain or Italy in summer?

Parent Cafe
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@inthegarden Four summers of interrailing in college enabled me to visit almost every part of Europe that is accessible by train, from Denmark to Portugal and even Greece and Finland (though I have a bit less experience of traveling round Eastern Europe by train - we only did east Germany, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia, and never got to Poland, Ukraine and Russia).

Nowadays there are more high speed links but somewhat fewer long distance overnight trains. Once I spent a week where the challenge was to not pay for a bed, and instead sleep on the train as many nights as possible (as I recall it went something like Salzburg to Amsterdam to Hamburg to Copenhagen to Neuschwanstein to Innsbruck to Paris).

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That’s fantastic, @Twoin18, I’m envious! Did you have a favorite region? Also, what is most accessible by train?

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Hard to pick just one favorite (the most memorable individual places you can still visit are probably the Alhambra in Granada and climbing the dome of the cathedral in Florence, since hacking bits of concrete out of the Berlin Wall in summer 1990 can’t be repeated). But just for ease of train travel I would pick either Tuscany-southern France or Switzerland.

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That train challenge is something I would have done when young, lol! I’d do it today with a nice sleeper compartment.

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You will have a great trip in any of these countries!

We spent an awesome 10 days in Basque country in Spain - St. Sebastian, Vitoria, and some amazing wine tours/tastings in the Rioja. We were there in July and that year wasn’t too hot.

My D was in Italy last summer for a study abroad. She loved the time in the Dolomites. Lake Country and the Italian Alps should be lovely in July.

I love the French alps too, Provence, and the Riviera.

Again, you can’t go wrong with any option here.

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If you are interested in going from Madrid - San Sebastian, I would be happy to share with you some hotels/restaurants/wineries we went to. D1 planned the whole trip. All I can is we had some amazing food. One night we did all tapas in San Sebastian. We went to 5+ bars/restaurants one night, had a small drink with few tapas at each restaurant.

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I would like that, very much, @oldfort, though I don’t yet know if that is where we will ultimately decide to go. Wish we could spend the whole summer traveling. (BTW, my husband and I had a tapas wedding reception at a Spanish restaurant :smiley: )

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Each restaurant is known for one or two tapas. You have those and then you move on.

Let me know and I will PM you the info.

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“Again, you can’t go wrong with any option here.”

While there are many great options, if OP doesn’t want to drive and is trying to plan travel using public transport (as opposed to taking a coach tour or hiring a driver), some places will be difficult. For example in the Dolemites I believe the train doesn’t go all the way to Cortina and even if you do get there by bus, getting to the key sites (eg Tre Cime) is tricky without a car.

So accessibility (I generally think trains are easier to plan around than buses if time is limited) definitely needs to be a key filter. For example that would make me choose Cinque Terre over Amalfi.

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Dh had never been abroad so we did eight days in Florence for our 30th (it was my second time there. We were lucky to have friends living there for a bit so we stayed with them and had built-in tour guides. If I could go anywhere in the world I would go back there.

We were there in early June, and I don’t remember thinking it was that hot.

Because dh had never been there, I let him choose: For your first trip to Italy, do you want to try to hit lots of place for a little while or see one place (Florence) really well? He said that he didn’t want to get back from vacation needing a vacation so we stayed put. There is so much to do, and you can avoid the crush of tourists if you plan accordingly. You can do day trips into the Tuscan countryside (a Rick Steves recommendation, and it was wonderful; in fact, I just ran out of all the olive oil I bought there and am searching for a replacement) and Cinque Terre (another friend did that). So you can stay rooted in one place and see plenty of other things.

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I’ve been up in the Alps and it really needs a car or a bus tour.

If you’re open and friendly, try some langage skills, I find most locals receptive.

The weather problem this year was the early and prolonged temps over 100. No idea whether that will continue. The earlier you start, the better.

Flying into a location like Pisa may prove to offer fewer choices or higher fares. I’ve got friends who go to Tuscany for 6 weeks every summer and they start hunting fares as soon as possible. They nowhave the familiar problem of sites like Expedia routing them through multiple cities. They explore from a vrbo base, but always have a car.

If this were me and a D (but I’m headed to Bavaria in fall 2020,) I’d have no hesitation considering Paris, then geting into the Loire Valley (train.) See a few Chateaux (there are local busses,) we rented bikes and rode out past vineyards, ate local foods, drank local wines and beers. We were in Tours, but D spent a semester in Nantes.

The Spain ideas sound great. I did once spend 3 weeks just north of Barcelona.

I need to add that the idea of a homebase is what I love, not just hotels. A week here, another there. Neighbors nod to you. Same outdoor markets while there, visiting the same corner bakery several times. For me, it lends a feeling I do live there. (A mindset, lol, since it’s only a quick visit.) Other friends need something more specific every day. Which are you?

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OP mentioned traveling in June/July and avoiding the heat, so I think that really constrains the options in southern Europe to those with higher elevations like the Italian lakes or the Alps. Cinque Terre, Provence, and the Riviera are all HOT in the summer. You can always go to Ireland or Scotland, which are pretty darn chilly even in August (we spent a week in Ireland which made us appreciate the dry heat in Amalfi). Trains, buses, and public transport are all good enough in any of these areas so that should not be a consideration.

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Like @lookingforward we were just outside the center of town so we went to the neighborhood pizzeria. To die for. And so inexpensive. And we had our favorite gelato shop and grocery store and neighborhood park. It was lovely.

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@inthegarden We flew into Paris and out of Rome. Of the sights recommended here I would second/third Cinque Terre. If I could return anywhere, it might just be there. So beautiful, so friendly, great hiking, great food, so gorgeous, very relaxing!! We hiked to/from all the towns, which is not easy! But we loved it. FWIW, I disliked Florence the most of all the European places I’ve been. It was SO commercial and SO crowded. Also, we found very few green spaces in the city. Most of the cities have nice parks or green spaces where you can spend time, but we didn’t find any of those in Florence. We did find a wonderful little beach bar on the river where we spent our last afternoon, but I just wasn’t crazy about that city. Beautiful museums though :slight_smile:

We’re heading to Portugal next year, which might be another option to consider. After doing a lot of research, we chose that over Spain.

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Ireland, after the prior Scotland, might be great. Or might spoil you. I found it to be one of my fav trips ever. Different sorts of trips fill different wants. I did take that trip with D1.

I love Florence. But summer is another world.

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It’s true, @2Twoin18, accessibility is very important to me. And it’s true that I don’t like big coach tours, though I would do limited day trips that way if I could find no other way. Though pricy, I would hire an occasional driver if need be. That’s what we did in Scotland (though we didn’t need any coach tours in the end). I economized in other ways and splurged with two different drivers/guides on three days of our trip. It enabled us to go to amazing places we wouldn’t have been able to otherwise, as well as provided wonderful company and cultural information. Those days were my favorite in the whole trip! So if I could find something similar in these countries I would do it again.

If I could rent a car for small segments of the trip where I didn’t have to do high-speed driving in large cities, in challenging conditions (hair-pin turns on single-track roads) or driving on the left (as in UK) I might (big might) consider it. I just don’t process speed well along with unfamiliar conditions, road signs in another language, different driving styles/customs. Plus, I’d rather be gaping at the view!

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If you think you can take the summer heat, I would recommend Spain. The place and people made it an unforgettable trip. We visited in the fall so the heat wasn’t a concern. We flew into Madrid, stayed at a hotel that had shuttles to and from the airport as well as ones into the city. From there we got the hop on hop off bus to go from sight to sight. With the maps they provide, it’s quite easy to manage.

Our travel within Spain was wholly on trains and buses. The travel was pretty seamless, buying the tickets a bit more of a challenge - we had to use PayPal as our credit cards wouldn’t work on the website. There is space on the train for luggage and the stations are fairly accessible but I would advise to limit the number of pieces. It just makes the journey so much easier. We were flying in and out of Madrid so we asked the hotel to store some of our luggage and we took with us only what we needed for the inland travel.

We booked a multi trip train journey from Madrid to Malaga (bus and taxi from Malaga to Granada and back), Malaga to Barcelona and back to Madrid. We booked all the train and bus tickets a few weeks before our trip. Alhambra in Granada was the highlight of the trip for me. It truly is spectacular and we were lucky to be staying on the grounds itself. Granada was hot even when we were there, so I would guess that it would be really hot in June/July.

There are quite a few day trips that you can make by train from Madrid and Barcelona. We were there for about 10 days but ran out of time to do everything.

One more piece of advice, do book tickets to the attractions early as we had the experience of some places selling out for the day and having to rearrange our sightseeing plan. And this wasn’t in the peak tourist season.

I think your trip will be great regardless of which country you choose to visit. If you need more details about hotels and such in Spain, let me know and I will PM you.

ETA: we planned everything by reading Rick Steves books and website.

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I have taken my daughter to Ireland and Scotland a few times, and we have all been to Italy about 15 times now. My husband and kids are dual US/Italian citizens.
We’ve hit pretty much everywhere, except Sicily.

June and July. Hot. Crowded. Avoid Rome and anywhere south of it in June/July. Don’t even think of going to Venice though in high season. Worth seeing at least once. In May or October.

Amalfi coast. Yes, Gregory peck and Sophia Loren knew what they were doing. Go there, but not in June or July. Capri…to die for. Sorrento…sigh. If you are into moving experiences, check out the Easter celebrations in Sorrento.

Okay, back to the current challenge. We have focused a lot on northern Italy (still hoping for a George Clooney sighting in Como.). I love Turin. A mid sized city with very few tourists. Milan is fun, too. Cinque Terre is worth a couple of days (kinda HAVE to take the train there), if you are staying in one of the villages (we prefer vernazza). Go there, but day trippers are capacity controlled. Magnificent.

Parma, great food. I mean those people are really into food. Verona, lovely. My daughter lived in bergamo for 6 months. Very cute. We have family in Lucca so it is a favorite.

Anywhere in Tuscany is fabulous. It is famous for a reason (but I never got into Florence). I have been in 80 different countries for work, and THE most beautiful place is have ever seen is the space between Siena and Greve In Chianti. (Rent a car for day - trust me on this one).

All of the villages along the northern lakes are worth spending time in. I prefer Lake Garda. I think because it has a lot of vacationing Italians and not international tourists.

If you want details on the hill towns in tuscany or Umbria, PM me. We have been to all of the usual suspects.

I know you said your’re not into driving in Italy, but it is actually an easy country to drive in, until you enter any city walls. We never do that. For goodness sake do not drive in Rome. But, there is something really cool about driving along the highway in Italy when a red Lamborghini whizzes past you. Look quickly because he’ll be out of sight in a few seconds.

We have done Paris with the family too a few times. We loved it, but the kids, not so much. Hope to do other parts of France once our youngest is launched. My uncle is buried at Normandy and has always been on my bucket list to visit.

My daughter liked the Italy and France trips more than Ireland/Scotland because she loved the shopping in Italy and France. And her Italian is pretty solid. The shoes…sigh…ladies, really, it’s all about the shoes. The purses speak to me, too.

This is making me want to check out flights. It has been a year since our last trip. Oh, heck, want a tour guide? I’ll be glad to accompany you. ? Oh, wait, my oldest is getting married in July, 2020. I probably need to go to that. .

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Lots of posts came in before I got my last one written and up on the forum. Thanks for them all! @lookingforward, I’m really more of the “pretend you live here” tourist. In fact, I like to think of myself as a traveler who makes myself at home as much as possible, not a tourist. Honestly, I’d love to get an apartment for a month or two if I could. I go to important sites, yes, but what I love is the serendipidous little things that happen that you could never plan for, and the flavor, the texture, the sense of a place. I’m just torn a bit between staying put vs. getting a variety because there are so many places to see and so little time. So my comprimise is sort of, one major city and one region to explore in one country (though if the city and the neighboring region spanned two adjacent countries that would be OK).

I’d love to go to Ireland or England, but I’d like to introduce daughter to a very different region of Europe and one that is not English-speaking at that. Now I regret not doing more of this with her throughout the years (though she did get to spend a month in China, three weeks in Ecuador, the Scotland trip as well as a good scattering of US destinations growing up).

She’s more of a homebody than me, and much more hesitant to get out of her comfort zone than I was at her age, but she’ can get excited to go if l go. I wanted to throw her into a summer host-family program in Spain like I did when I was seventeen, but she’s not having it! I’m thinking I have a window of time to show her diverse places before she’s grown in hopes that she’ll more likely travel on her own later. I really want her to do a semester abroad in college. She’s the kind of kid I’ve had to coax a bit to do things outside of her comfort zone, and then she comes to like doing them for herself. It would be so easy and so fun to go back to Scotland but I can always do that myself when she goes off to college in two years.

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Just something to think about, but it seems likely that Brexit, in some form, will occur before your trip, which may lead to currency fluctuations and price changes.