<p>To work on a cadaver at this level is the true gift.</p>
<p>Now did I say I would call to complain? I simply said I would inquire about the program and when cadaver work began. I find it odd that a school would put a cadaver in the hands of 19 years olds who have no idea what they are doing. It has really made me wonder if people know where their bodies are going after they pass away. I think it is a gift for med students but not pt students starting their 3rd year. It is not a debate it is my personal opinion probably based on the fact that I know this particular kid and know that he is in no way mature enough to appreciate such a gift.</p>
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<p>And this class will provide them the means to learn so that they no longer “have no idea what they are doing.” Presumably they will be guided along the way by a seasoned instructor, no? It’s not like they’re going to walk in and just start hacking away willy nilly.</p>
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<p>They are there to learn. If they have declared their majors at PT, they need to learn about the human body. By the time they are juniors, they have plenty of theory and book knowledge about the human body and NEED to see the real thing. </p>
<p>I’m sorry, but if a student is too squeemish or immature to “handle” cadaver work, perhaps they should choose a major where this is not required.</p>
<p>Regarding donating bodies to undergrads…that is a personal decision. If you don’t want to do that…just don’t.</p>
<p>Maybe its bothering me because I know this particular kid. If he were a serious student commited to his work I would not not think anything of it. I guess thats why it irked me. You guys are making some good points and hopefully other students in his program are of a different caliber and level of maturity.</p>
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<p>No one “knows what they are doing,” whether that’s the med student, the PT student, or someone else in a position to need exposure to anatomy and physiology. That’s why they have instructors to guide and teach them. </p>
<p>But, still. Imagine the phone call that comes into the university. “We have someone on the phone who wants to know when cadaver work begins in our PT program.” “Oh, is she the parent of a current student, or interested in a PT career herself?” “No, it’s just some lady on the phone who wonders.” So, they’re going to tell you that it begins at X point in their curriculum, and now what? </p>
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<p>Asking again - what is the difference between a med student in a 6 year med who is in his 3rd year, and a PT student who is in his 3rd year? </p>
<p>And there are presumably consent forms that are signed by someone donating his or her body to science. I don’t know if you donate to a specific medical school or university, or if you donate to a “pool” that several medical schools or universities might pull from, but I really don’t see why you are drawing the distinction. If you want your body used to benefit science, what’s the difference if it’s a PT student, nursing student, or medical student? </p>
<p>It seems to me you think this particular kid (your friend’s kid) is immature, which may very well be, but that’s irrelevant to the discussion. Anyway, I’m sure any immaturity or inappropriate behavior in the cadaver setting will be dealt with, so it’s not like you have to worry he’ll be drawing dirty words on the cadaver or anything.</p>
<p>I actually don’t see anything wrong with PT students working on cadavers in their third year.</p>
<p>Chem students work with real chemicals in their third year. Their first, too.</p>
<p>The human body is an amazing creation. It is a gift. We have 3-D software and books and all kinds of learning tools, but there is no substitute for the real thing for those that will need to have a perfect understanding of the body. Practical, pragmatic knowledge is crucial when going into these fields. You can’t simulate everything on a computer. </p>
<p>If donating your body to medical science concerns you, make sure you find out ahead of time. I am sure that you can put some conditions on your donation.</p>
<p>I was a 19 yr old student @ a community college taking anatomy and we were fortunate to have human cadavers to dissect and learn at close range what constitutes the human body. I am a dental hygienist but was in class with future RN’s, PT’s etc. We were told the cadavers were expensive and hard to get and were fortunate to have them to study the human body.</p>
<p>Can’t understand why someone not affiliated with any health profession would object to students working on a cadaver that was donated to science. The utmost respect is shown to the cadavers by the students. We worked on cats and frogs too and there was no comparison to the human cadavers.</p>
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<p>So you don’t object to the concept of 3rd year PT students having access to cadavers?
You just object to this particular student? If so, there’s really not much you can do about it. That’s the school’s problem to ensure that he approaches the situation with sufficient maturity and gravitas, not yours. </p>
<p>But even if the student is a goof-off or not committed to his studies, what on earth do you think he’s going to do to the cadavers that is going to be problematic or disrespectful? Or that wouldn’t be caught / dealt with immediately?</p>
<p>It was upsetting to hear him speak of it in just a disrespectful way. I guess I bit my tongue and vented on here.</p>
<p>It was upsetting to hear him speak of it in just a disrespectful way. I guess I bit my tongue and vented on here.</p>
<p>It isn’t uncommon for teens ( or adults) to make jokes about things that they are uncomfortable or concerned about. It doesn’t mean that when they are needed to, they are not professional.</p>
<p>My massage therapy program was 15 months. Cadaver anatomy came about at the 10 month mark.
Even if a student " seems" to be less mature, a course such as cadaver anatomy, is a good opportunity to learn and contemplate on the human body which could result in an enriched perspective.</p>
<p>In any case, I don’t know if I would argue that someone who has a knee jerk reaction about students of anatomy and what is appropriate for them to learn for their degree, is able to judge appropriateness & maturity.</p>
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<p>Well…if he was accepted into a PT program then he must have some commitment to academics. These programs are HIGHLY competitive. Quinnipiac has an excellent PT program. It is NOT easy to gain acceptance into this program.</p>
<p>If this student is a freshman, and he doesn’t do well, he will be politely asked to switch majors. PT is a very rigorous course of study, and like many other fields (engineering is one that comes to mind), if you don’t cut the mustard, you are not continued as a major. </p>
<p>This student will either mature and be a serious student or he will have difficulty continuing this major. </p>
<p>And YES…most PT majors are serious students. They have to be to continue i the programs.</p>
<p>As a non student I wish every student who wanted to had the opportunity to study in a human donation lab. </p>
<p>I love my aging friends and seeing them suffering as their bodies deteriorate from use, cancers, and illness is sad for all concerned. How wonderful it would be to have interested students get involved early in discovering the aw inspiring wonder of the human body, and who knows how many more students would then go on to eventually become researchers, medical professionals, bioengineers, and others would be able to bring their own unique insights into the medical problems that will eventually affect us all.</p>
<p>Maybe a student who was going into business because they didn’t feel a passion for anything yet gets passionate about healthcare. Maybe an artist becomes a great artist because they understand human anatomy in a way no book can ever explain. Maybe a future architect gains confidence in their own bold designs because nothing teaches form and function better than the human body. Who know… But I say invite the interested students in…</p>
<p>To me a great education is about inspiration, and for the life of me I can’t imagine a more inspirational subject matter than the human body. The best machine ever imagined can’t come close to the human body. The most beautiful piece of art is so much less beautiful than the faces and touch of the people we choose to keep close to us in life. And the body, regardless of your belief in God or not is ultimately only the physical manifestation of the spirit that is who we are. For me, I think C. S. Lewis said it best when he wrote “I do not have a soul. I am a soul, I have a body”…</p>
<p>But Hey… Thats just me…</p>
<p>Quote:</p>
<p>“It isn’t uncommon for teens ( or adults) to make jokes about things that they are uncomfortable or concerned about. It doesn’t mean that when they are needed to, they are not professional.”</p>
<p>That is totally true, and I know because I had to do disections both in dental school and in my postgrad. Humor is a way to cope with the situation; it helps if you make light of it.</p>
<p>I remember one time when we had to make a sagital cut of a cadaver during postgrad, and the electric saw had malfunctioned. The instructor looked around for the strongest-looking male student so she could ask him to do it manually, and she picked me. I remember the way my classmates were looking at me as I started to saw the skull in half. The image flooding my brain was horrific; I was seeing the saw coming in and out of the cadaver’s forehead. </p>
<p>I couldn’t just say “I don’t want to do this” and step aside; I was a graduate dentist and I was supposed to have done other dissections during dental school. I looked around at my classmates and asked “and you are sure he’s quite dead, right, Doctor Smith?” Everyone laughed a lot louder than necessary, which was their way of releasing tension.</p>
<p>Once you start identifying the anatomical structures, your brain switches to a different mode, and you don’t feel uncomfortable any more, but during the incisions you have to find a way that will allow you to just do it.</p>
<p>Oh, and I just remembered something I wanted to ask: I know that in other countries some of the cadavers that are used in medical schools are not of persons that donated their bodies to science, but of unknown people that were found dead in the street. Does anyone know if that happens in the US, or if it would be illegal?</p>
<p>My undergrad is a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Medical Illustration from Rochester Institute of Technology and we dissected cadavers at the University of Rochester. I think it was sophomore year - I know there was an additional class fee that year and I think it was $800. It was an incredible learning experience. I remember the professor introducing the class and talking about respect and how fortunate we were to be able to learn this way. The students were respectful and there was a procedure followed every day. Pretty amazing and makes for good stories :)</p>
<p>My D is finishing her MM in Voice (performance) She has had two cadaver labs in her vocal pedagogy classes to understand how lungs and the larnyx function. She said it was the most fascinating and useful classes she had had in her entire university experience. She was the only student who volunteered “to get right in there”. She didnt want to waste what was a precious opportunity.</p>
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<p>Note that one cadaver can help educate many students and will be useful for doing so for several years. It is not like dissecting a frog, where two students might share a frog for one lab and then the remains would be discarded.</p>
<p>My D is a college sophomore. This semester in Anatomy, they are dissecting cats. It is all part of the process of learning about bodies - animal and human. She did fetal pigs in HS Bio. The Anat class in the cadaver lab is next year (Jr). The university is quite proud of the fact that they are able to support a UG lab and believe it does their students who go on to Med/PT/PA/Dental programs well. </p>
<p>D can be a bit of a goof off and perhaps someone might think that she’s that way in school - hardly. They are taught to treat all that they work on with respect.</p>
<p>And anyone who has spent time in a teaching hospital knows that medical students and interns are not always the most mature and respectful young adults out there either!</p>