frustrated over what my counselor told me...please help

<p>Your previous posts are relevant.</p>

<p>Ok…so now you have a 28 from a test date when you weren’t sick. With more study, maybe you’ll get a 30. that still isn’t high enough for significant merit at the schools that you’re considering. It may not be high enough for ANY merit at those schools.</p>

<p>For instance, at Lafayette and Bucknell, you’d need a 32+ to be in the upper quartile. Usually, a person has to be well-within the upper quartile to get significant merit. So…probably an ACT 34+ to get significant merit.</p>

<p>Okay so what about getting in (both schools) and need based financial aid if I apply early decision? Assuming I have an act of 28 or 31 after next Saturday.</p>

<p>Since we don’t know your family’s financial situation, how can we know what need-based aid you might get?</p>

<p>Have your parents run the NPCs on each school’s website.</p>

<p>Yes. 30,000 annual income.</p>

<p>Did you make a typo writing your GPA? How is it possible to get an unweighted 4.1 when the max score for any class is 4.0?</p>

<p>an LAC is a great choice! and names and prestige mean nothing in the real world! the world does not revolve around harvard, yale, princeton etc…
bucknell has a name and a great rep too!
same with lafayette , davidson college etc…</p>

<p>Bucknell, Lafayette, Union are all great choices. I think Trinity College (CT) also has engineering. You might want to look into Swarthmore College engineering, but only if your ACT goes way up. But you should make sure you find a more affordable option in case the aid doesn’t come through as you might hope.</p>

<p>Do research on the 3-2 programs also known as 3+2 programs before you apply to schools that have this option instead of an engineering program. Do a search here on CC for this topic and read some of the debates.</p>

<p>You have been offered some good options and advice from the posters. I am posting Eckerd College’s information on their 3-2 program. Merit scholarship in the past year was $16,000 per year with your GPA and an ACT score of 29 or higher.</p>

<p>THE DUAL-DEGREE ENGINEERING PROGRAM AT ECKERD COLLEGE</p>

<p>The Dual-Degree program is designed to permit a student to earn two college degrees in five years: one a liberal-arts degree from Eckerd College, the other an engineering degree from a cooperating university. The program can usually be completed in five years if the student is well-qualified upon entering Eckerd College as a freshman, and is willing and able to take five courses during one or more of his/her semesters at Eckerd College.</p>

<p>Program Benefits</p>

<p>CLASS SIZE - Most engineering schools are large, and ALL engineering students (electrical, mechanical, aeronautical, civil, etc.) take the pre-engineering core of math, physics, and chemistry in the first two years, before dividing into the smaller individual classes for their particular branch of engineering. The result is that the pre-engineering core courses tend to be offered in large sections, often with hundreds of students in each class. In the Dual-Degree option, these core courses are taken at a smaller school, in smaller classes. Since the more advanced and specialized engineering courses taken in the final two years at the engineering school will also likely be smaller, the Dual Degree student avoids the very large classes which may be an especially difficult experience in the first year of college.</p>

<p>LONG-TERM CAREER SUCCESS - The second (non-engineering) major for the Eckerd degree can greatly enhance the career potential of a young engineer. According to one survey, the average beginning engineer spends an average of only about five years in doing actual hands-on engineering before being promoted into a part-managerial or even fully managerial position. While the basic engineering skills are absolutely essential to success in the professional field, it is often leadership, communication, and management skills that determine how far one ultimately progresses in one’s career. Many corporate CEOs, presidents, and other top executives possess engineering backgrounds, but these are the ones who also have strong leadership and communication skills to accompany their engineering expertise. The liberal arts curriculum is generally recognized as being the ideal background for acquiring these skills.</p>

<p>FLEXIBILITY - The engineering curriculum at most large universities plunges the student immediately into one specialized branch of engineering. By pursuing the Dual-Degree program, a student can keep open a great many options. The first two years of “pre-engineering core” courses plus the required liberal arts courses taken at Eckerd permit the student to choose, as late as the beginning of the third college year, from among many career paths: from among many branches of engineering, physics, chemistry, marine science, pre-medical or pre-veterinary studies, mathematics, computer science, and more. Previous EC dual-degree students are now aerospace engineers, electrical engineers, computer scientists, physicists, physicians, economists, business owners and CEOs, and more.</p>

<p>The courses taken at Eckerd College during the first three years are typically:</p>

<p>Pre-engineering core:
Math: Calculus I, II, and III, Differential Equations
Physics: Fundamental Physics I and II and Modern Physics
Chemistry: General Chemistry I and II
Computing: Introduction to Computer Science</p>

<p>Eckerd All-College Requirements:
Western Heritage in Global Context I and II
Foreign Language (two semesters)
Academic Core Area (1 course from the arts, the humanities, and the behavioral sciences respectively)
Perspectives: (2 courses; Global and Environmental)
A Writing Portfolio</p>

<p>I had suggested 3+2 programs to my son and his comment was “So I can pay 5 years of tuition and get two Bachelor’s Degrees OR I can get a Bachelor’s and Master’s degree in engineering by taking the engineering path? No-brainer!”
I can see the appeal of the 3-2 programs as you come out better rounded by having more time to take non-engineering courses. But there are some serious down-sides too such as the extra expense and sometimes kids can’t get into the affiliated engineering program because there aren’t a lot of spots. My biggest issue with it is that if you go to an engineering school, you start taking introductory engineering courses right away. You may decide that you don’t want to study engineering at all! When would you have the change to figure that out in a 3-2 program where you study liberal arts for the first 3 years?
As I said, there have been plenty of interesting debates already. Please read them and decide what is right for you :-)</p>

<p>“30,000 annual income.”</p>

<p>Unless your parents have significant savings or investments, they are not likely to be able to do more than feed and house you when you are home on vacation. You need a place that you can pay for yourself (tuition, fees, housing, meals, books, materials, personal expenses, travel to & from school, etc.). This means that you had best spend some serious time in the financial aid forum reading through the threads on guaranteed merit-based aid, and at [FinAid</a>! Financial Aid, College Scholarships and Student Loans](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org%5DFinAid”>http://www.finaid.org) learning about federally-determined need-based aid. Truly, your situation while not entirely hopeless, is certainly very challenging.</p>

<p>It also means that whether you like it or not, your best options may well be within the public system in your home state. If U of Mich is too big, take a long hard look at the other public universities. One of them may work well for you.</p>

<p>With a lowish income of $30k per year, your options need to be carefully selected since your family probably can’t contribute much or anything towards college. Otherwise you could end up with acceptances that aren’t affordable. </p>

<p>Once you have your new scores, a good list can be created. </p>

<p>OOS publics will not work unless you know FOR SURE that you’re going to get large merit, since they won’t give you the need-based aid you need. (for instance, a school like UMich will NOT work…you have too much need, and your stats won’t get you large merit).</p>

<p>Do post new scores when you get them. Engineering, full need (or merit), and a 28 on the ACT isn’t going to be easy to find. Spend a bit of time now studying and filling in any gaps you can - esp with Math and English. Math and success in Engineering do correlate.</p>

<p>I would not restrict your list to in-state publics. Lafayette (for example) guarantees to meet full demonstrated need: [Apply</a> for Financial Aid Tuition & Aid Lafayette College](<a href=“http://finaid.lafayette.edu/apply-for-financial-aid/]Apply”>http://finaid.lafayette.edu/apply-for-financial-aid/) This could make it more affordable than a public. Penn State (for example) is not known for generous FA packages.</p>

<p>Here is the entering class profile at Lafayette so you can judge for yourself what kind of stats you need: [Entering</a> Class Profile About Lafayette College](<a href=“http://www.lafayette.edu/about/lafayette-at-a-glance/entering-class-profile/]Entering”>http://www.lafayette.edu/about/lafayette-at-a-glance/entering-class-profile/)</p>

<p>Although Lafayette graduates only a fraction of the number of graduates of Penn State or Virginia Tech, I can assure you that they are very well qualified. There are plenty of grads working in civil engineering (including some very well known ones) in eastern PA, NJ and NY metro area.

[Program</a> Division of Engineering Lafayette College](<a href=“http://engineering.lafayette.edu/program/]Program”>Programs · Engineering · Lafayette College)</p>

<p>Quick update: I got a 31 on ACT.</p>

<p>3+2 programs bring financial aid uncertainty with respect to the 2 school. I.e. you may not be able to transfer if the 2 school give insufficient financial aid, which you may not know until later.</p>

<p>Places to look for safeties: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>At ACT 31, looks like just Prairie View A&M for a full ride with engineering. ACT 32 adds Louisiana Tech and Howard. ACT 34 adds University of Alabama - Huntsville. Concordant SAT scores should also qualify.</p>

<p>The list also includes a bunch of automatic full tuition scholarships (e.g. University of Alabama - Tuscaloosa engineering), but with the family income you stated, paying the rest of the $10,000 to $15,000 per year would be a stretch.</p>

<p>UCB, how is Alabama a better option than Michigan? Its undergraduate student population is just as large, possibly even larger and the Engineering program is nowhere nearly as good. </p>

<p>awxf, regardless of whether or not you think Michigan is too large, you should apply. In terms of Engineering quality and CoA, Michigan could be your best bet. Should Lafayette or Bucknell sweeten the pot, by all means go. </p>

<p>Have you considered Rose Hulman by the way?</p>

<p>(Alabama - Tuscaloosa is probably not an option, given that its auto-merit is full-tuition, not full-ride.)</p>

<p>Is the OP in-state for Michigan, or otherwise reasonably assured of sufficient need or merit aid there?</p>

<p>The schools with the auto-full-ride would be safeties if the OP’s stats meet them. Michigan is likely more desirable if the OP gets in with enough need or merit aid, but that may not be assured enough to consider as a safety.</p>

<p>Yes, the OP is a Michigan resident, which means Michigan will meet 100% of his demonstrated need.</p>

<p>a little late to the party here, but I want to add that from what I’ve read the 3+2 programs sound wonderful on paper (witness the post above about Eckerd) but in practice few students end up actually completing them. Whether its a change in plans by someone who had a tilt towards the liberal-arts to begin with, the stress and expense of leaving a college where you’d get a diploma with one more year to instead spend 2 more years at a place where you’re a stranger, etc – from what I’ve read very few students end up with engineering degrees. Something anyone seriously considering a 3-2 program ought to look into at the schools they are considering.</p>