Could be a generational thing. Student loan debt burden may be much more of a norm for recent college graduates than it was a generation ago. So the assumption among recent college graduates is that “everyone”* has it, similar to the assumption that “everyone” buying a house the first time will take out a mortgage loan to pay for it. (And mortgages often did get discussed by earlier generations, though usually limited to finding the best deal and other more technical aspects, rather than how they relate to one’s overall financial situation.)
*The actual percentage of recent college graduates with student loan debt appears to be around 69% these days.
Yes, son keeps pretty quiet on that subject, though his closest friends/roommates know. He’s aware that most friends are very money conscious/concerned, and if anything it’s taught him to really appreciate his situation. Their circumstances make him very conscientious (“Mom, we really can’t spend money on delivery pizza at school all the time; we have to eat on a ‘student’ budget.”) I’m proud that he’s not braggy about it, and glad that he cares about his friends’ feelings.
On the other hand, even folks who are paying full sticker price are getting subsidies at wealthy colleges, because those schools use income from their endowment to cover costs. If I recall correctly, at least one Ivy spends in the neighborhood of $140,000 per student each year, so full-pay students whose parents are writing $70,000 checks are in effect getting a 50% discount, and a student paying $35,000 is actually getting a 75% discount (rather than a 50% discount).
One could make a similar argument about wealthy students who are attending state schools – the state’s taxpayers are subsidizing the students’ education to some degree, even if the students are paying list price.
Just something for full-pay folks to keep in mind, if they’re feeling a little resentful about paying more than other parents. You’re not really paying the full cost!
“at least one Ivy spends in the neighborhood of $140,000”
I’m a little suspicious of these numbers as well, until we actually know what went into that $140K number. As an obvious example, if I’m a CS student who loves sports and the $140K includes new computer labs and more seats at the football stadium or hockey rink, great, if I’m an econ major who is not a rah rah sports person, well, not so great.
A starting place is to look at operating expense budgets and divide by number of students…which can be hard to do for schools with lots of grad students (need to get just undergrad operating expense numbers). Note that financial aid is not included in operating budgets, as it is an offset to gross revenues. There may be also be idiosyncracies at to what’s included in a given school’s operating budget, for example some endowment investment group’s salaries and expenses are funded out of their returns, and don’t appear in the expense budget.
Schools with higher endowments tend to have higher spends per student, which seems obvious. But even schools with relatively high endowments have undertaken cost cutting measures in the last few years, such as Middlebury Colleges.
There is spending information, but there may be differences in accounting methods (e.g. some colleges with medical schools report a very high level of spending, even though medical school spending affects very few undergraduate students).
However, highly endowed private colleges are probably subsidizing all (including list price) undergraduate students from endowment investment earnings. State colleges are subsidizing in-state undergraduate students with state money (although there has been a downward trend over the decades).
But list price undergraduate students at poorly endowed private colleges, out-of-state state colleges, and for profit colleges are likely paying more than the cost of education.
Of course, the actual cost of education could vary from one student to another at the same college, since different subjects have different costs, and upper level courses tend to cost more to teach. Some students takes more courses than others as well.
The graph at the bottom of the page illustrates some striking differences among the NESCAC schools in per-student spending. Connecticut, Trinity and Bates spent 62-65K per student in 2017-2018, whereas Amherst, Middlebury and Williams all spent more than 100k.
Another important point is that research is typically funded from external sources, not from tuition. Therefore, if included in a simple per student calculation, any research intensive institution will appear to be subsidizing the cost of tuition despite the cost being covered by other sources. (e.g. A school w/ 10,000 students spending a $10MM grant from NSA does not raise the unit cost of educating each student by $1,000. It likely reduces costs by providing learning opportunities as well as student employment, covers faculty costs, …)
H and I paid for/am paying for our kids college educations. They had to work for spending money. My D graduated and my S will graduate debt free. Maybe they shared this with their friends, I don’t know. I do know that they aren’t the type to share every private detail about their lives. H and I don’t share this info with friends, co workers…
I can tell you that every athlete knows what every other athlete is getting in scholarship money, and probably the rest of the financial picture too. I told my daughter not to share, and she didn’t for a while, but soon everyone knew. The coach was really bad, really bad, at keeping that to herself. They also figured out how much merit each was getting, how much state aid, whose parents were paying for after game snacks, for the cases of water.
I grew up in an immigrant family and talking about family finances with others never occurred. No $$ discussions with neighbors or friends. With close relatives, yes. I grew up in the midwest. My parents were incredibly frugal to the point where IMO it really affected the quality of their lives. They were always afraid of losing money, even when they didn’t need to be afraid.
Is talking about one’s personal finances considered normal? It was never done in my family growing up nor is it done in my family now. In fact, in the rare case that someone I know brings it up in conversation, I find it odd and I certainly don’t reciprocate in anything but the vaguest terms possible if at all.
Maybe it is a regional thing but in my circles, talking about one’s money or asking people about theirs is considered gauche.
Financial talk was never taboo in our family and I grew up listening to my aunts and uncles discuss personal finances among one another all the time. I think it’s been very beneficial to me honestly. Outside of family it doesn’t happen as much but I also worked on a factory production floor most of my life and people talked about anything to pass the day. The ones that wanted to talk finances I was more than happy to oblige because it’s one of my favorite topics.
I never discuss finances with anyone outside my immediate family but my DD16 and her friends talk about it freely. As a Software Engineer she new going in which companies offer highest compensation and what exactly her offer should be. I anticipate it to change though. Now when they graduated the inequality of real world will kick in.
@twoinanddone Wow, that coach is inexcusable. That could create a lot of friction and jealousy. One of my kids won two large scholarships ( merit-based) and she heard a lot from others when kids were applying who “needed” it more. She didn’t respond. But the schools also don’t publicize the winners. I’m not sure I’d feel comfortable if they did.
I guess if it’s public information that’s another story. I don’t think that coach is doing anyone any favors by talking about it. Cohesion on a team is hyper-important for good results.
In my immediate family (Me, my husband, and two kids) finances are not taboo and we are open about money with each other, though we try not to be too nosy or intrusive. With our extended family (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins) it’s not taboo, but it’s not expected to share every minute detail of your finances and you certainly aren’t expected to share if you don’t want. That said, we talk about other stuff mostly and our relatives aren’t nosy…
I don’t really talk about finances with friends or co workers…then again no one has really asked…
We told DD that we’d pay for undergrad (tuition, room/board, medical) and she was responsible for grad school if that was her choice. She applied to publics and privates and got into a mix of both, eventually selecting a top state school. She loves being debt free, as do we. We also only have one child and live well within our means because that is our comfort level with debt. My husband’s parents paid for his tuition, but mine was a combo of parents, loans, grants and work study.
I don’t know what kind of conversations DD has with her peers about college debt - most of her roommates have been fortunate enough to have parents pay the bills (and some pay for a lot more than we did). At the end of the day, there are people in your life that make/have more or less than you do - it’s an important skill to navigate that. You can do it without lying or bragging.