<p>vonlost asked whether people were able to report about accuracy of specific NPCs. There has been discussion of that issue in several threads. The general consensu is that the more detain the NPC asks for, the more accurately it predicts final aid packages. Since this is only the second year that colleges and universities have been required to offer NPCs on their websites, I think it is safe to say that many of them still are works in progress.</p>
<p>Mea culpa!</p>
<p>ED just puts people in a bad position. I read those ED articles, “do ED if you want the best chance - look at the EA acceptance stats as compared to RD!” We actually thought for a brief few minutes, let’s just do ED, the chances are increased and we can always say we can’t afford it and back out if we change our mind or have a chance at a better offer. </p>
<p>Then the good angel on my shoulder told me if we do it we honor the spirit of the agreement. Meaning we back out only if our financial picture totally goes down the drain and we really can’t afford it and the school offers no help. I figure next year we will be about the same financially, maybe better as the cars will be paid off. However, I still could not see myself depleting years of savings for a chance to brag about the great school my kid is in and how smart he is… </p>
<p>Those that back out and have the same financial picture are just cheating other ED apps that got deferred or rejected. I am not sure if they cheat RD applicants as their spot then comes available later in the RD pool, but it sure does not seem like fair play and makes me angry.</p>
<p>Why don’t colleges that offer ED application do something like this?</p>
<p>When someone applies ED, s/he must also do the financial aid application, and the numbers the applicant put into the financial aid application are run through the net price calculator and the net price result displayed. Then make applicant acknowledge that:</p>
<p>a. If ED admission comes with financial aid that makes the net price the same or lower than the net price calculator showed at application time, it is binding unless the applicant can show a major unexpected change in financial situation since application.</p>
<p>b. If ED admission comes with financial aid that makes the net price higher than the net price calculator showed at application time, the applicant can decline the offer without showing anything and without any penalty (like being blackballed to other schools for reneging on an ED agreement).</p>
<p>The ED conversion rates are at 97% or so at the top schools. So the schools expect a few percentage point loss but their overall yield looks great when they add that to the measly yields during RD.</p>
<p>The real question is why do they need ED.</p>
<p>ED makes the size of the incoming class more predictable. I.e. less risk of having to go to the waiting list, put the school name on the list of schools with extra space, or scrambling to increase capacity in classes, labs, and dorms.</p>
<p>Is there data on retention rates of ED vs. RD matriculants?</p>
<p>After reading some of the replies on this thread it struck me - why don’t school offering ED also encourage and/or mandate the before applying students/parents use their NPC to make sure it’s in the ballpark for actual cost to that family? Seems like a simple and reasonable part of the process - especially when the family may be committing to $200,000 or more to that school!</p>
<p>Here’s my guess as to why. These schools all need some full pay or nearly full pay students. The “full pay” rate is a made up, inflated amount that allows the college to have the higher pay supplement the cost for the lower pay students (as well as endowment $$$ of course). So, by not focusing the family on the actual cost or NPC the colleges that use ED get the kids hooked completely and even by contract before the family really thinks much about the actual cost over 4 years. Yes, the family should take this responsibility on themselves but come on, we all know these colleges live of the “I’m in lobe with XYZU” and then the parents feeling they’re letting their child down if they don’t pony up the $$$.</p>
<p>In a way, I don’t feel it’s a horrible moral failing to turn down a college’s ED even after signing a contract. Again, circumstances are different but let’s face it, the schools do their best to gloss over the COST and have our kids (and families often) fall in love with the mystical “experience” of that one school - the ONLY one for Johnny or Suzie. IF the schools were more upfront on the cost/value then I’d be more inclined to look down on someone who re-nigged on ED. As is, many families feel trapped by the whole college choice process, even though logic tells us they shouldn’t let that happen. The colleges play right into this and as such deserve some of the blame when ED students/families get buyer’s remorse.</p>
<p>The schools do want to keep a high ED conversion rate. </p>
<p>I can’t come unless my price tag is more reasonable can be a negotiating tactic if one is serious about the school.</p>
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<p>In a way, I get what you’re saying. But I don’t think the same standard applies to everyone. There are plenty of college applicants whose families are pretty inexperienced about both admission to and the costs of fancy higher education. Some of these people may, in fact, be seduced, if not duped, into ED. Even then, however, I’m not sure that bad behavior on the part of some colleges completely excuses bad behavior on the part of some students and families.</p>
<p>Moreover, I am not sure that any of it applies to the case that started this discussion: to a family that apparently can pay full price (although, quite understandably, they do not want to), and signed an agreement to pay full price in exchange for a fast track on admissions without applying for need-based aid, but now wants to shop around instead. Unless there are circumstances I don’t know or understand, I am afraid this is a family that just doesn’t want to honor the promise that it can keep. </p>
<p>If they do not honor their agreement, will the whole fabric of society come unraveled? Not by a long shot. But they won’t be behaving honorably, and I don’t think it will be an unfair result of backing out of the ED agreement with the dream school significantly reduces the applicant’s options for other colleges.</p>
<p>(As an aside, rundmc, you might want to note the spelling of the word reneged. I have no doubt that your misspelling of it in post #68 is completely innocent, but it bears an unfortunate resemblance to another highly provocative word in our language, if you catch my meaning.)</p>
<p>“There are plenty of college applicants whose families are pretty inexperienced about both admission to and the costs of fancy higher education.”</p>
<p>I do think the former is the OP’s case here, trusting that the GC was an expert. But I do worry that the ED school and the possible RD school are in the group with Franklin and Marshall that exchanges ED lists, such that the child will be in eligible for RD admission.</p>
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<p>Not to derail the thread (totally off topic, I know), but Sikorski’s comment has me thinking about treatment from a few of the college’s on D’s list and maybe reprioritizing the list in my own mind…</p>
<p>On topic, I think vonlost’s quote of the ED agreement says it all (capitalization is mine):</p>
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<p>This makes it an open and shut case for the OP as far as I am concerned, since they apparently did not apply for financial aid. They SIGNED the agreement.</p>
<p>Ah, good point, vonlost. Maybe I am being a little harsh. They may not have been scheming from the outset; they may have thought everyone tries to game the system. But they did indeed sign an agreement that doesn’t seem to offer them a way to back out.</p>
<p>[Off-topic reply to intparent]: So far, none of us regrets the daughter’s decision to go to the university that really seemed to want her. Of course, not all the data are in, and even when they are, that will be just one data point.</p>
<p>The language on the common application early decision agreement is unequivocal and extremely straightforward. A person would not need to have special expertise with regard to the admissions process, or any prior knowledge whatsoever, to comprehend the following:</p>
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</p>
<p>The student’s signature is above a statement that says, “I have read and understand my rights and responsibilities under the Early Decision process. I also understand that with an Early Decision offer of admission, this institution may share my name and my Early Decision Agreement with other institutions.” The guidance counselor and parent/guardian signatures indicate their commitment to ensuring that the “applicant abides by the Early Decision commitment outlined above.” So, unless a person can’t READ, he or she should be able to understand what it means to apply early decision. I expect schools anticipate that many families will blur the distinction between the concepts of “can’t pay” and “don’t want to pay.”</p>
<p>I can think of one more category - my child recently ticked me off and I no longer want to pay. :p</p>
<p>I have to assume it’s a laugh riot every day at the home of texaspg.</p>
<p>;)</p>
<p>First of all, I agree with those posters who are saying that the OP is breaking the standard ED agreement. Unless the particular school had other stipulations in the language or unless the OP filed for financial aid and did not get the award that the family needed to make this work, he is in violation of the ED agreement by breaking it due to not getting MERIT money that he thought his student would get. It doesn’t work that way.</p>
<p>However, pragmatically, both schools, the college and the high school is likely to let this whole thing go. I say, shame on you, to the OP and the GC in the situation, for all that matters.</p>
<p>As to the question the OP is asking, there is no one size fits all answer to that question. I’ve had 4 kids go through the process, and we’ve been surprised with what awards each of them have been offered, and not offered. With the NPCs, you can get some idea of what the cost is to an average student at a school, but if you are in the full pay category, and are looking to snag merit awards, that isn’t going to help you much since averages will not apply to you. What I have generally said to folks is to look at the % and average dollar awards given for merit. Then look at what your kid’s approx percentage is, for SAT1 scores. If you figure your kid’s score is in the top 5 percent of a school’s accepted student group, and the school gives out merit awards to 15% of the the student body, then your kid is good for getting something. You then have to see how much of those awards are sizeable, not the $1-5K awards that may make up as much as 90% of the awards. Because if that is the case, the chances start going down as to the student getting a high award. Basically, if your kid is in the top 5%, double that percentage to 10% or halve the school award percentage because these awards are not based on test scores only, with other factors like geographics, diversity, special talents, gender, field of study, coming into play as well. </p>
<p>As to where to personally draw the line, it all depends on you and your kid. It’s important that your kid is on board with these decisions. An unhappy kid at college under the impression he was railroaded into that venue is not a recipe for success. </p>
<p>I have a son who is currently at a reach school, and he is finding the academics difficult and the opportunities hard to achieve. He’s doing well, but not sterling, and is finding that getting into certain programs and transfering into a different school at that university is going to be a challenge for him. He could have gone directly into such programs in a school with kids that are not such high achievers. He is looking at all of this quite differently now than when he was choosing colleges as a high schooler. Plus he could have gotten a tuiton free experience, had a car at home, been around a lot of his friends had he picked a less selective school, and that route is now looking more appealing than it did back then. He will likely have to do a fifth year to get what he wants, and probably at that local school. </p>
<p>But going back to merit awards–they can be quite dicey. I remember a friend’s DD not getting any award with her absolute top test scores, salutatorian, tough classes, etc, and knowing someone who got one of the half tuition awards at that same school without anywhere close to that profile but living in the Midwest. BC has its pick of east coast Catholic school girls. Why should they pay a dime to entice one to come, when they got them by the dozens?</p>
<p>OP. I hestitate to feed this thread further, but will note that student did apply for FA, we did NPC, student eligible for FA (but no major discount), we did speak to admin officer re: merit, did consult GC, etc. Admission packet rec’d didn’t include FA info, but FA offer is pending per FA office. I surprised by the amount of vitriol based on a short post. We’d read ED rules and noted that FA is factor on final decision. ED application allows other non-ED applications to occur, which student did, and did receive significant merit (50% tuition) elsewhere.</p>
<p>And yes I’m offering more information re: situation.</p>