Full ride to Ivy League?

[lskinner]

<p>

All of Harvard’s financial aid is awarded on the basis of demonstrated financial need - there are no academic, athletic or merit-based awards. Harvard meets the full need of every student, including international students, for all four years.

</p>

<p>

so, according to this, race would not be taken into consideration at all.

</p>

<p>It doesn’t seem like that to me. The quote leaves open the possibility that race will play a role in deciding what peoples’ “need” is.</p>

<p>

It is only my personal experience, but need only schools (including high Ivies) will modify FA packages for students they really want, including URMs. There is a fair amount of “professional judgement” involved in FA. One Ivy decided to ignore our home equity in their FA review when shown offers from competiting schools. You don’t have to believe me, but it does happen and the difference in our case was substantial. Again, I don’t think this only happens only for URMs, but rather for any student that a school finds highly desirable.

</p>

<p>I agree with this. It’s just human nature and economics at work. As long as there is discretion in the financial aid process, which there clearly is, common sense says that such discretion will be informed by the college’s desire to enroll a particular student. Which isn’t the same for every student.</p>

[lskinner]

<p>Here’s a quote from Dartmouth’s web site:</p>

<p>

The Financial Aid Office at Dartmouth makes the final determination of the Parental Contribution and may compute a different figure than this estimator after reviewing all required application materials.

</p>

<p>i.e. there’s room for Dartmouth to finagle things a bit.</p>

[lskinner]

<p>Here’s something I found on MIT’s web site:</p>

<p>

Undergraduate Admissions and Financial Aid, Committee on (CUAFA)</p>

<p>Posted January 1st, 2007 by masont </p>

<p>in Institute and Faculty Committee Blogs </p>

<p>CUAFA is a committee of the faculty charged with policy setting for the Admissions Office and the Financial Aid Office. The focus is on shaping the composition of the freshman class. This includes not only the selection process itself but also recruitment (ensuring that the best students are in our applicant pool) and yield (persuading those who have been offered admission to accept it and to choose MIT over other schools). Financial aid figures prominently in the latter. There are issues of access and diversity that need to be addressed. In short, CUAFA’s domain is the nature of the undergraduate student body at MIT.

</p>

[hotpiece101]

<p>also from Harvard’s website:</p>

<p>

@Harvard College

All of Harvard’s financial aid is awarded on the basis of demonstrated financial need. There are no merit-based awards, and we have no preferential packaging policies that give some students more attractive awards than others. The expected family contribution may include a parent contribution, a student income contribution, and a student asset contribution, each of which is discussed below.

</p>

<p>so, according to Harvard, they don’t do the following:</p>

<p>

It is only my personal experience, but need only schools (including high Ivies) will modify FA packages for students they really want, including URMs.

</p>

<p>so back to the original topic, OP can get a full ride to an ivy league school, Harvard at least (granted she gets in), based on financial need, not academics or race.</p>

[kollegkid]

<p>I wonder how well the full ride kids blend in at these elite colleges. It must be rough to be dirt poor with classmates of the rich and famous.</p>

[danas]

<p>lskinner…
It’s clear that you want to believe what you want to believe. So be it.
I just wouldn’t count on special treatment, if I were you. And I’m not going to do your research for you by posting links.
Re: post #59. Princeton doesn’t consider home equity. I do have experience with need only schools “matching” other need only schools. But I always regarded it as a limited gesture, because for the following years, the school’s formula reverts to the norm. I can imagine, for instance, Yale “matching” Princeton’s aid for the first year. After that, Yale’s algorithm rules.</p>

[lskinner]

<p>

lskinner…
It’s clear that you want to believe what you want to believe.

</p>

<p>I want to believe the truth. It’s possible that colleges obsess over race in the admissions process but are 100% colorblind when it comes to financial aid. But it defies common sense.</p>

<p>

And I’m not going to do your research for you by posting links.

</p>

<p>Let’s see if I have this straight: You make a claim about the contents of certain web sites, and it’s my responsibility to verify your claims? Are you really saying that?</p>

<p>But anyway, there’s no need to discuss your claims further. It’s clear that you want to believe what you want to believe. So be it.</p>

[lskinner]

<p>

so, according to Harvard, they don’t do the following

</p>

<p>I concede that if Harvard is telling the truth on that issue, then they don’t practice affirmative action when it comes to financial aid.</p>

[lskinner]

<p>Here’s another article in which Princeton, Penn, and Columbia essentially admit that they (and other Ivies) practice affirmative action in the financial aid office:</p>

<p><a href=“http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=1077-3711(199324%2F199424)2<114%3ATBWFTB>2.0.CO%3B2-Q&size=LARGE&origin=JSTOR-enlargePage[/url]”>http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=1077-3711(199324%2F199424)2<114%3ATBWFTB>2.0.CO%3B2-Q&size=LARGE&origin=JSTOR-enlargePage&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

The Bidding War for Top Black Students</p>

<p>[snip]</p>

<p>“Increasing the number of underrepresented minority students is our highest priority,” says Nancy Hargrave Meislahn, director of undergraduate admissions at Cornell </p>

<p>[snip]</p>

<p>Under these circumstances, it wouldn’t take an economic genius to predict a price war for the top students. “People are buying African-American students like athletes,” says Stetson [dean of admissions at UPenn] “Not that anyone will openly admit it. But they’re doing it.”</p>

<p>[snip]</p>

<p>All of the Ivies state that their financial packages are purely need based and that they do not make awards based on merit. However, within these guidelines, there is room for discretion. The practice of “preferential packaging” for certain minority and low-income students has been going on for years, according to Don Betterton, director of financial aid at Princeton.</p>

<p>The way this works is as follows: “Our most talented African-American students receive a smaller self-help component,” says Peter V. Johnson, associate dean of minority recruitment at Columbia, “so they’ll be expected to take out smaller loans and will be expected to work less.”</p>

<p>[snip]</p>

<p>

</p>

[danas]

<p>Okay, lskinner, you’ve changed my mind.
Not being an African-American, this is not something I’ve looked into in African-American journals and I am frankly surprised.
Just generally, even people in favor of affirmative action in admissions might have trouble accepting that a white or Asian-American family with an income of, say $55,000, would have to pay more than an African-American family in identical circumstances.
I’m not sure how I feel about that.
Of course, it’s supply and demand.</p>

[sybbie719]

<p>before anyone gets into a snit, I think that you also muct look at the article an the time in which it was written. The article presented was written in 1994 and yes, there were very few african americans (not that there are a large number today) at elite colleges. So everyone was going after the same small number of student.</p>

<p>

The way this works is as follows: “Our most talented African-American students receive a smaller self-help component,” says Peter V. Johnson, associate dean of minority recruitment at Columbia, “so they’ll be expected to take out smaller loans and will be expected to work less.”

</p>

<p>I have knowned Peter Johnson who still works in admissions at Columbia for a number of years and I know for a fact that Columbia has has programs for NYC high school students specifically geared toward low income students (of all races) and they do draw from this pool in the college admissions process. Columbia also participates in HEOP and in National Educational Opportunity Programs.</p>

<p>“Bidding wars” for students are not exclusively limited to african american and hispanics because schools will preferential package for what ever students they want. This also includes low income studnets (which the article specifically mentions) athletes and top scholars. In addition since the time that this article has been written, colleges have reviewed their financial aid policies offering low income inititiatives to all students.</p>

<p>

Here’s a quote from Dartmouth’s web site:</p>

<p>Quote:

The Financial Aid Office at Dartmouth makes the final determination of the Parental Contribution and may compute a different figure than this estimator after reviewing all required application materials.

</p>

<p>i.e. there’s room for Dartmouth to finagle things a bit.

</p>

<p>And Dartmouth is very upfront about this fact when they send their finanical aid packages to their students. They tell students up front that they will entertain a finanicial reveiw even if it means the student sends them a package from a peer school. I can also tell you first hand (as I have told a number of students on CC who were admitted to Dartmouth about this fact) students who asked for financial reviews from Dartmouth and presented offers from peer schools got them regardless of race.</p>

[lskinner]

<p>

“Bidding wars” for students are not exclusively limited to african american and hispanics because schools will preferential package for what ever students they want. This also includes low income studnets (which the article specifically mentions) athletes and top scholars.

</p>

<p>I agree, and it’s apparently the same way in admissions. Top scholars, athletes, or whoever, enjoy an advantage in the admissions process. </p>

<p>Common sense says that a school always wants some of its admitees to enroll more than others and that this difference in desire may inform (but not overwhelm) the financial aid process.</p>

[danas]

<p>My son also went to Dartmouth and had Dartmouth match the peer school’s aid package. Unfortunately, the added little financial boost did not continue past year one. Normal algorithm was used in following years.</p>

[sybbie719]

<p>My D is a rising senior at Dartmouth who also got a peer school match that has only varied by 1000 from freshman year to her current senior year package (it was something that I specifically asked about before she accepted admission).</p>

[danas]

<p>Well, I guess this my thread for humble pie. He got very good aid which also didn’t differ much year by year. I guess I just figured Dartmouth didn’t take the trouble each year to go back and look at year one. Using the algorithm they gave me, it seemed they followed it to a “T” with each year fresh.
It is possible I am wrong, if they told you that, Sybbie.
I’m sure the OP has vacated long ago.</p>

[sybbie719]

<p>I totally understand Danas because my fear was that Dartmouth would meet the other’s schools package year one and then go back to the original aid offer in subsequent years. This is why wen D got the financial review I called them to ask how they would treat years 2, 3, & 4. They told me barring any major increases in income my D’s package would be pretty consistent to the package she received freshman year. Iit was basically the same package sophomore year, it went up a little junior year (I thought it was for the cost of the study abroad program) and a little more for this senior year. All and all, Dartmouth stood by theit word, my D is getting a great education & has had an amazing experience there so I have no problems with them.</p>

[uncjanes]

<p>It is possible to attend for next-to-nothign based on your FASFA. Princeton claims to have the largest endowment and you can go to their website to calculate (according to your family’s income) approximate cost. With my family’s income in excess of $150,000.00 it was only going to cost around $7000.00 to attend.</p>

[sybbie719]

<p>Princeton is not a FAFSA only school. Princeton uses their own FA forms (but will take the CSS profile but not for early decision, which is now a thing of their past). So they use the information from their own FA forms in addition to the FAFSA to determine aid.</p>

[bandit_TX]

<p>I agree with sybbie, Harvard has been consistent year to year so far.</p>

[jss330]

<p>For my first year at Princeton (this fall), I will be paying roughly $1,500 from my summer savings. Other than that, I had a work-study that was worth about $2,000, but I got that covered with my national merit scholarship.</p>

<p>If it matters at all to you, I’m an Asian male.</p>