<p>Busdriver - you’re waaay too realistic about life. ;)</p>
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<p>My mother has lived in a CCRC for 15 years. She paid about $250K for her 2-bdm apartment which is totally nonrefundable. Her monthly fees are about $2400. Basically, that pays for her independent-living apartment, utilities, and dinners in the clubhouse. She’s told me that it’s become much, much more expensive over the years. In fact, it’s become so expensive, that there is about a 25% vacancy rate. Most of the people who can afford to move in are very wealthy. My mother could not afford to move in now.</p>
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<p>Cptofthehouse – Are these assisted living facilities? In our area, a decent ALF will cost at least $40K a year for a minimum level of care. If you have dementia, the costs will be much higher. You must live in a lower cost of living area.</p>
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<p>busdriver 11 – She’s become more stubborn as she gets older. She’s been tested and has mild cognitive impairment (at least that’s what she’s told me). She’s slightly forgetful sometimes, but really not bad compared to my MIL who died when she had stage 5 Alzheimers.</p>
<p>When my dad moved to the assisted living place he told me, " I am going to die here". He is a very emotional guy, but he didn’t say the above with a lot of emotion. Just a fact . </p>
<p>There is some hanky panky going on at some of these places. My mom showed me an 80 year old couple that just started something. </p>
<p>It helps that eyesight goes when we are older. :)</p>
<p>Aquamarinesea, which area of the country do you live in?
I think the poster meant 10k to 12k per month.</p>
<p>Aquamaromesea. I meant per month, not per year. I live outside of NYC. Those are just basic charges. Then you have the places where it’s a half million dollars to get in, non refundable and then then the fee therafter.</p>
<p>The difference between the nursing home atmosphere and the assisted living apartments comes with your physical and mental condition. Once you cannot be left alone or have heavy duty medical needs, you are moved into the nursing facility. My MIL would not be eligible for an apartment or cottage unless she paid an additional very hefty fee for 24 hour care as she is not in a condition that they would leave her alone. I wish she or my DH had locked into a place 20 years ago for her. But she did not want to leave her house which is now junk.</p>
<p>Kluge, we are going through this with my MIL. She can nearly normal for short spurts of time but then the dementia kicks in. My DH blamed it on her poor hearing, her isolation when living alone, her eccentricities, the surgeries, the painkillers from the surgeries, the move here which was really a non move–she came to visit and never went back, depression her eyesight failing, too much going on in our house, you name it. He’s finally coming around to accepting that this is dementia/senility. She just underwent a full battery of tests with a geriatric specialist and neurologist, and they (DH and she) have to go for a final meeting which I think he is deliberately putting off. </p>
<p>I had initially thought a nursing home would have been the best place for her, but after several months in them after each surgery it was clear that she is not the sort to do well in them. She was put in the rehabilitation wards, but we were told that she really belonged in the ones where most of the residents had dementia and DH was adamant that she not be put there, and in truth, at that time it seemed premature. Now, there is no question, but even at that time, she was not particularly welcomed by her fellow rehab patients who were only there to recover from their various surgeries; they were there because their insurance paid for their care there rather than a hospital and they did not want to travel for the PT needed for recovery from their various surgeries. She did not fit into either group.</p>
<p>My dad was a surgical nurse for many years before retiring. Since then, he took care of my grandmother for 13 years (she lived with my folks until the week before she passed away four years ago), my aunt (who was oxygen dependent, lived in a nearby apartment and passed away three years ago) and my mom, who has been totally bedridden since she broke her femur ten years ago (plus is diabetic, severely overweight, has CHF, is on oxygen, and has other serious long-term issues). </p>
<p>My grandmother got about $1000/mo in SS and had no pension, as my grandfather died months before pre-retirement survivor benefits were enacted. My aunt was divorced, estranged from her kids, got SSDI and had no pension. Dad takes fabulous care of them, and they all lived much longer than their medical conditions would have indicated, but he will not allow us to get respite care for him. He is now 76 and wearing out. </p>
<p>I don’t know what will happen if my dad goes before Mom. There is a military pension and Social Security, and some property in a moribund market, but no other savings. Mom would need to get into a nursing home immediately, as home health care cannot deal with her basic daily needs. We couldn’t even get her into a rehab facility after the broken femur – they were not equipped for her needs. My sister and her family live in a house my parents own at under-market rent. The property would have to be put on the market before my Mom could get on Medicaid, and once it sells, those funds go to pay for care. In their state, Medicaid can come back and claim any assets over $10,000 once the recipient has passed away (i.e., a primary residence). I don’t have a problem selling my parents’ property to pay for care – but evicting my sister is going to be an ugly, ugly situation, esp. since she’s the one that lives nearby and is the one who drops everything when Mom and Dad need her. </p>
<p>A friend of mine is 66, divorced with only SS benefits on the horizon. Has worked all her life. Her ex has offered her space in his house with his current wife if she can’t make ends meet. (Fortunately they are all on very friendly terms.)</p>
<p>Countingdown, check if your dad and mom are eligible for the veterans’ Aid & Attendance Housebound program and allowance:</p>
<p>"Veterans and survivors who are eligible for a VA pension and require the aid and attendance of another person, or are housebound, may be eligible for additional monetary payment. These benefits are paid in addition to monthly pension, and they are not paid without eligibility to Pension.</p>
<p>"\Since Aid and Attendance and Housebound allowances increase the pension amount, people who are not eligible for a basic pension due to excessive income may be eligible for pension at these increased rates. A Veteran or surviving spouse may not receive Aid and Attendance benefits and Housebound benefits at the same time."</p>
<p>Look it up in the site for Veteran’s benefits. Don’t know if both your parents would be eligible for additional money and/or services or just one of them if the other is gone. I’ve found several families unaware that their parents were eligible for this.</p>
<p>Also, see about some form of asset transfer to start NOW. Get that clock ticking now, as the look back period is 5 or 6 years with the house. There are attornies that can deal with this sort of thing and can advise you as to how to best procede.</p>
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<p>Hmmm, (bringing this back to the main topic of these forums) for those who went to a residential college or university, did you like living in the dorms or other group living environments (co-ops, fraternities, sororities)?</p>
<p>Many of the elderly men of today were in military service when they were younger, which necessarily resulted in group living environments, albeit more highly regimented ones.</p>
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<p>Would there be any possibility that she and her family could buy that house at fair market value or a reasonable approximation?</p>
<p>^^ucb, my sister and BIL cannot qualify for a mortgage. The rent she pays my folks is about 60% of PITI. While house prices there are ridiculously cheap, salaries are terrible.</p>
<p>Having her buy it out would be the best solution, but I don’t see it happening.</p>
<p>My parents ran the numbers and decided that they could remodel their home to allow them to live on one level and hire nursing/ housekeeping care for about what they would have paid to move to an assisted living facility. They did this in the late '80’s, when they had retired and were still in excellent health. They took care of their finances (everything in a trust), insisted that we kids go through the house together to identify who wanted what (signed by all of us, copies to all of us plua the original kept by their lawyer), and had end of life plans written (copies to all of us, to their physician and to their lawyer). They cleaned all the “junk” from their property. Their deaths were as “easy” for us to handle as any death of a parent could be. My only thoughts were that they were isolated in a small northern town, where none of their children lived, for the last couple of years. And I think my mom’s last few years must have been pretty lonely. She loved that home, it reminded her of my dad, and she refused to even consider leaving it… But managing her health care, and the last couple of years of hospital stays from halfway across the country was less than ideal. She would have liked being able to find a bridge game just by walking down the hall!</p>
<p>And now, on the opposite end of the “planning for the end of life” spectrum are my inlaws, who … Well… They are old for their ages, due mostly to self inflicted health issues that they deal with by avoiding them until one of them has an emergency hospital stay. They live in a wonderful, huge, historic victorian home that is NOT built for anyone with mobility issues! Not a house for elderly people. All four floors of it,and the two story carriage house on the property, are crammed with stuff. Some of it is quite valuable, some of it is Beanie Baby quality, and none of it has been catalogued. My MIL had a stroke last month… While they were vacationing in the south. She spent some time in the hospital, then in a rehab facility, and now they are due to return home in a week. She has lingering issues, and right now can not drive. We don’t believe that she will be able to manage that house any more. The things they needed to be doing earlier in their retirement, the things their children asked them to do, the things their children offered to help them with, thise things that could have been done bit by bit with thought and ease… Now those things will need to be done under much more difficult circumstances. Their children live literally from coast to coast, with a couple living in the same state, but none in the same tiny town. This is not going to be pretty.</p>
<p>Countingdown, see an attorney about how to handle transferring the assets so that there is a chance the state does not take them when the time comes to do an accounting, THere is a look back time period, but you can’t do it sooner than now.</p>
<p>Many have your situation with a squatter in the family home. When this is done, the house will go into a trust and you sister can pay her lower than market rent to the trust which would account for half the asset value in time, if ever. Better than nothing. I’ve friends who got nothing due to that situation and what can one ? Nothing if you don’t want to evict your own family member who is already in trouble.</p>
<p>The problem with outfitting one’s house for old age and illness is that getting good caretaker is very difficult and expensive, especially on a 24 hour basis. I tried with my MIL, and it was not on a 24 hour basis, but I wasn’t on site to manage them, and it did not work out, to put it nicely. Even on site, I’ve had to let a lot of workers go because they simply were not adequate. The idea of having to staff aides on a 24/7 basis scares me. Don’t think I can do it even at home and not mentally disabled. Which is a lesson to keep in mind for myself as the time may come where I may not be physically/mentally able and that is the crux of the issue. I think looking for a good assisted living arrangement with nursing facilities to which one can transition is the best way to go, a window my MIL and DH missed in their aversion to the whole institutional living idea. </p>
<p>It looks like if DH and I live for a long time and need care, the only thing we were able to give our kids is their education, as it is very likely there will be no money left in such a scenario.</p>
<p>^^ Very good points about aging in place. It worked for my parents only because they never lost their mental acuity, and didn’t need high level nursing care, just some basic help. We children would have been happier if our mom had let us move her to an extended care facility the last couple of years, but she had a lot of money, all her brain cells, and a stubborn streak.</p>
<p>eastcoast - your parents gave you a wonderful gift. Your inlaws sound like mine. I feel like they are a ticking time bomb. Lots of health issues; a house they cannot manage; huge property taxes; no family within driving distance. Truly, it is too late for them to move. Whatever scenario unfolds will be ugly.<br>
I think there are improving options for active senior communities all the way across the spectrum to assisted living. Two seemingly very appealing three stage facilities will be opening later this year near us. I plan to be in something like that eventually - near the kid that has the nicer spouse :)</p>
<p>Frankly, I have no idea what to do for ourselves and DH. We can’t stay here. Way too expensive. Even if the mortgage were paid off, the taxes are waay up there. A good friend of mine is struggling with that right now. 15 years ago she was sure she would be set if she paid off her house, which she now has as of last year. But property taxes have gone up more than 50% over that time and her taxes alone now are enough to pay for rent on a nice two bedroom place. I can only hope the housing market rises enough in the time we have left in this house so that when we sell it, we get some cash in hand from it. The mortgage and taxes paid, I consider rent. But then where to go after so many years of living here, and yet not really connected to this area? Back to where we once were connected? A whole new place? Stay where the children are? I have no idea as to what to do. </p>
<p>I feel that I am the last of the dinosaurs in having been a stay at home mom, and my children are not likely to have the luxury of doing this or having a spouse to do the same. I can see how the die has been cast for them in that direction. And I won’t expect them to care for me and make the hard decisions, as I don’t tend to agree with them on ever so many things. I feel that this is something I need to plan and put together myself. DH is no help as he refuses to discuss these things thinking that one has to do as things occur, even as he sees how this did not play out to his mother’s advantage. I do believe that she would have had more happy and vibrant years in the last 20 and even more had she joined an assisted care community, as she truly was a hermit in her home which exacerbated her eccentricities.</p>
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<p>My wife has always been a SAHM and I know many other families with similar situations at work and in social circles. My employer is fairly generous and we live in an area where the cost of living isn’t bad if you’re careful with expenses and this allows a SAHM. Of course a family can live at a higher standard with two working parents, at least in financial terms. I would not say that this sort of thing will be impossible going forward. I look at our son and see a bright career ahead of him. Not quite so much for our daughter but she didn’t apply herself like he did though she is working a lot harder now.</p>
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<p>This is why I’m here and in the discussion threads about retirement, pensions, social security, 401Ks, investments, nursing homes, etc. It’s coming up for us in ten to fifteen years and I’d rather plan and be aware than just let it hit us.</p>
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<p>It’s often not fun to discuss things that seem far off and that may be
unpleasant. I keep a todo list with these things and sometimes I don’t
get to those list items for a long time. But I look at my todo list
many times a day and I’m reminded of those things on the list that are
lurking in the background and not necessarily pleasant. I like to take
care of things that have been on the list for a long time when I have
a reasonable amount of unemcumbered time and where I’m not constantly
worried about something else. There are more of those times with one
child launched.</p>
<p>I remember speaking to a customer once at work who was calling us to update her arrangements for if and when she passed away. She called once a year to make sure our mailing addresses didn’t change and what her executors would have to do in regards to insurance, Billing, and claims. She kept a “manual” for them because she said when her parents passed away they were lost. This woman was in her eighties.</p>
<p>She listed all of the companies that she does business with, their numbers, and who her contacts are there along with any instructions on how to cancel anything.</p>
<p>Sent from my DROID BIONIC using CC</p>
<p>I am 62 but a few years ago set up a WORD file with all our insurance, investment, banking and other info (such as SS #s) set forth. I e-mailed this to H (I am the W, and handle all administrative stuff), and sent edited copies (same info, just with the passwords redacted) to our young adult kids. I figured that way they will have a guide re what is where, at least, for whenever I might keel over. 
It is also a helpful reference for me.</p>
<p>Now I am trying to go through all possessions and clutter to streamline things so that we will only have the items we want to keep when we downsize. I want to get this done before we are in our 70s! Trying to organize, and eventually get scanned, all family photos. These projects are sure to take me years.</p>
<p>Researching where to live in retirement as well.</p>
<p>The last thing I would want is to become a problem, or to leave a mess that will be a burden for my kids to clean up.</p>
<p>cpt –</p>
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<p>I’ve been having exactly the same thoughts as you. H will probably be retiring in a couple of years. We live in a high cost-of-living area. We both were born and raised in this area. But I think we would like to explore other parts of the country in hopes of relocating somewhere else that is less expensive and has a warmer climate. Our D will be graduating from college in 2 years with a degree in a high-demand, high-paying field. It’s hard to say if she will choose to take a job here or something 3000 miles away.</p>
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<p>that is very kind dstark… honestly I am worried the government will inflate away anything I can save though. <em>sigh</em></p>