roethlisburger the TSA is security theater nothing more.
there are many what ifs in life (like an autistic boy in a t shirt and shorts could be an unknowing terrorist… so he needs to be molested by a creepy old man in a uniform) I can assure that playing security is not making you safe. the TSA will never stop a terrorist attack but passengers line up like sheep in the name of “safety” . 10000x of vehicles, 100000x people move in and out of the runway area/ on and off planes unchecked all day ever day across airports in the United States and the TSA by their own admission fails 95%+/- of their own “tests” probably really means 100%.so with every hotel. mall. church. hospital,highway,concert school movie theater etc etc…a target why should we only subject people to taking off their shoes, tossing their water, getting groped and going into the super safe(sarcasm) naked body scanners at the airport…we should do it everywhere all day and since the new weapon of choice of ISIS is cars and trucks what should we do about that threat?
It is not that we should do nothing but TSA harassment and civil rights violations is not the answer.
Delta has raised their caps for reimbursing “bumped” passengers
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2017/04/14/delta-air-lines-bumping-compensation-9950-overbooking/100480050/
The big problem I and some others have with Delta is that it is the only airlines we have encountered that requires a NEW prescription for O2 dated within 2 weeks of each flight! The other airlines are fine with the same Rx written within a year from the date of the flight, which is much more flyer-friendly and honestly Rx for O2 generally don’t change much or frequently.
Unless and until they fix this O2 issue, I will not consider flying them.
@HImom that is an odd rule! Hope they change it.
It’s been in place nearly a decade and is the only airline with that ridiculous rule. It makes NO sense medically or logistically. If your trip is longer than 2 weeks, you are going to have challenges getting an MD to write you a fresh script while traveling.
It’s an unreasaobable burden. I often have trips longer than 2 weeks. There is no logical or medical reason for this bad rule. I’m unaware of any other carrier that has this rule. All other US carriers have been fine with the United form signed within the past year by your MD.
In Europe, each carrier has its own rules you must learn and follow as well.
United is now requiring that traveling employees “book a flight” at least an hour before departure. And American Airlines says it will not deplane a boarded passenger for a different passenger.
This is turning into a watershed case.
Oscar Munoz won’t resign:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39580112
If he’s not going to resign, he can’t afford any more idiotic PR statements or actions as he and United management under him have amply demonstrated earlier. More importantly, he’s going to need to do a heck of a lot more than he’s doing so far to not only remedy the current situations with Dr. Dao and Geoff Fearns, but also be much more proactive in understanding concerns of angry customers here in the US and overseas.
Unfortunately, by criticizing Dr. Dao in his earlier statements which some attorneys interviewed have stated could legally constitute defaming, the hole he’s dug is such he’s going to have to do a ginormous amount to make up for it. Remains to be seen if he can pull it off…
And a FB friend posted this satirical Onion type article:
http://www.breakingburgh.com/united-launches-devastating-attack-syrian-airbase-bid-improve-image/
It really has to be a cultural shift–valuing customers AND giving staff the tools to “make things function smoothly.” Currently, one doesn’t get the sense that US airlines are doing either of these.
I think this article states the problem and a way to help get companies closer to a real solution.
“It really has to be a cultural shift–valuing customers AND giving staff the tools to “make things function smoothly.” Currently, one doesn’t get the sense that US airlines are doing either of these.”
there is no reason the airlines will do this…they virtually have zero concern of new competition(maybe a new airline will start that will fly a handful of routes and they have a high probability of failure) there will be a new round of consolidations. perhaps jet blue/southwest…spirit/alaska airlines. and even if you never use those airlines every one that merges is one less that puts pressure on the ones you do.
airlines, your cable company function just like the government they just do not care.
think DMV,IRS, post office…there will be no change… do you go to the DMV and say you guys are nasty slow and incompetent…I am going to IOWA or MAINE to get my license they do a much better job.
You are dead wrong on this one. Have you heard of Norwegian Airlines, round trips to Europe for less than $300? The last administration caved and allowed an extremely low cost international carrier more access into the US market, and I doubt the new administration will do a thing, though they pretend to be pro-American labor. Good deal for passengers, bad deal for US workers, as they cannot compete against the low wages paid when their wage and benefits are relatively much higher.
As an example, what if cruise lines mostly hired US workers, had to pay them a certain salary and benefits to keep them…your cruise tickets would be far more expensive, but many American workers would be making decent salaries. As it is, they mostly hire international workers, work them nonstop and pay pathetically. Many people in the industry think that letting Norwegian in will be the end of profitable airlines as we know it.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-norwegian-air-20161202-story.html
busdriver11
dollars to donuts when delta and say united try to merge the current president will squash it with a tweet…
nowergian airlines will not be what brings US domestic airlines to their knees. there is a graveyard full of failed post deregulation start up airlines. it is a near impossible to enter business for so many reasons. as of now the airlines can and will continue to act with the arrogance and incompetence of a government agency because they can.
I doubt Delta and United would ever seriously try to merge, anti-trust laws would stop it, they are already both huge carriers. Norwegian is not exactly a start up airline…they’ve been around for almost 25 years, and have been flying 737’s for 15. Giving access to an established low cost carrier that pays 1/3 the salary and charges 1/3 the ticket price does not mean the end of domestic carriers, but it will certainly make it harder for them to compete and the jobs less desirable.
I was not referring to Norwegian as a start up in the united states (I meant value jet,vision, usa3000,skybus,midway ,virgin america,airtran, Independence Air etc etc etc…even hooters had an airline (founder of course put his name of his restaurant/bar on it)
what I meant to convey about Norwegian is that they are a headache not a threat.
I promise you consolations in the airline industry are not over…they probably are for the next four years …possibly 8.
a jet blue/ spirit merger might get past the starting gate but none of the legacy carriers will have a chance IMO. but 10-15 years out all the legacy carriers will not exist
Agreed. Sadly enough, the management and institutional culture of these airlines is the key reason why US airlines have become the way they are nowadays. .
If they didn’t have such abysmal management/institutional cultures, none of these situations would have happened.
Also, here’s an article from a Cornell Law Prof illustrating why the bumping of passengers who have already been boarded and seated as Dr. Dao and Geoff Fisher was illegal on United’s part:
http://www.newsweek.com/why-united-were-legally-wrong-deplane-dr-dao-583535
And a perspective from a 34 year LEO veteran on the use of LEOs to compel already boarded/seated paying passengers to deplane:
Failure to comply with instructions of airline employees is a federal crime. I agree that things got way out of hand in this instance, but I don’t give the Dr. a pass on how he behaved either. Plenty of bad judgment used on many people’s parts.
Key here is complying with LEGALLY REASONABLE instructions of airline employees.
What transpired according to several legal commentators including the Cornell law Prof and the LEO veteran in posted links was the instructions given by the crew of their airline may have been illegal in itself and thus, rendering the “Failure to comply with instructions of airline employees” bit invalid.
An uncritical reading of that bit could make the bumping of already boarded/seated paying passengers for refusing to comply with the following illegal/unreaonable situations legal:
Strip naked in front of flight crew/fellow passengers
Bow down and crawl on one’s knees in the presence of airline flight crew/flight attendants.
Assault another passenger because pilot/flight attendants don’t like the way said passenger looks for whatever odd reason.
IMO, it was legally reasonable. Your opinion obviously differs. YMMV.
I don’t think anyone has a “right” to an airline seat. If you’ve paid your fee, you certainly have an expectation to have a seat on that flight, but as has been pointed out upthread there are multiple instances in which the airline has to deny boarding or ask passengers to deplane. I’ve been asked to do it on several occasions. Was I happy about it? Heck no. Did I act like a petulant child and stomp my feet and hold my breath? Absolutely not…because it wasn’t the time or place to do so. I addressed the problem after the fact and resolved it without escalation. Dr. Dao chose a different course of action, and bears his share of the responsibility for the escalation that resulted.
Issue is once the paying passenger has been boarded by virtue of taking his/her seat per Rule 21, he exercised his right to that seat.
The airline could only deplane such a passenger in a limited number of stipulated circumstances…and being overbooked/needing space for deadheading crew due to prior poor planning by airline management/personnel aren’t covered according to several legal commentators including the Cornell law Prof.
And rightfully asserting one’s rights calmly and politely as shown in the first video and corroborated by several witnesses on that same flight as Dr. Dao did does not constitute “a petulant child and stomp my feet and hold my breath”.
If the airline crew’s instructions were illegal/not legally reasonable to begin with, passengers can and do have the right to refuse compliance.