Graduation and retention rates, which closely correlate to admission selectivity, are 22.5% in addition. Graduation rate performance (i.e. does the college do better or worse than expected based on its student characteristics – more of a college’s treatment effect than its selection effect that graduation and retention rates mainly measure) is another category that is only 7.5%.
@ucbalumnus those things may also correlate to grade inflation, though places like UChicago and Princeton are detrimental to that argument.
This does not happen at any state school. Think about it. More than 10 tour buses per hour. The students at Stanford are routinely asked to pose for pictures with these visitors. This is what I mean by an elite brand.
“The program is designed to accommodate Stanford’s many visitors while assuring that the campus community is able to conduct daily activities without disruption, as well as to ensure traffic safety and the safety of visitors on Stanford’s private property,” according to notices sent by the Department of Public Safety to tour operators in advance of the April 14 enforcement date.
The measures were taken after a census of tour bus visitation, conducted in July 2013, showed that the number of buses bringing visitors to the campus had doubled in 18 months. More than 50 buses per day visited the campus between the hours of 9 a.m. and 5 p.m., when the census was conducted, with many more buses arriving in the early morning and evening hours. On some days, more than 10 buses arrived within a single hour, often in the morning.
But since “every president of the past 30 years has a degree from H/Y except Trump(Wharton).” shouldn’t they too have a tour bus issue? Do they?
Let’s be a bit more specific this is way overstated.
Harvard and Yale undergrad degrees and presidents. I am doing this off the cuff so please correct any inconsistencies.
Truman no. No degree.
Eisenhower no. West Point
Kennedy yes (royalty) .
Johnson. No UT?
Nixon. No. One of the UCs?
Ford no. Michigan
Jimmy carter. A no. Georgia ?
Ronald Reagan No. Some obscure small school eureka ? I promise I didn’t look if it’s right
Clinton no. (Georgetown undergrad)
Bush yes. Uber rich
Bush jr. dad is president.
Obama. No. Occidental then Colombia.
Trump penn.
so I see the bush family and John f Kennedy as the only hypsm in the group
You’ve posted this many times in this thread. However, the thread isn’t about law school. It’s about undergraduate rankings. In the past 30 years, only 1 presidential family attended HY for undergrad – Bush. Similarly only 1 SCOTUS attended HY for undergrad. If you consider governors as “ruling class”, then only 4 out of 50 attended HY for undergrad. Instead the vast majority attended state schools, usually in the state over which they govern. Attending HY for undergrad is by no means a requirement or even especially common among these positions.
@privatebanker – LBJ attended Southwest Texas State Teachers College for undergrad. (now called Texas State U, which is different from UT)
Nixon attended Whittier College in California. (A private LAC in California)
Carter studied at Georgia Southwestern College and Georgia Institute of Technology and then entered (and graduated from ) the US Naval Academy.
You are correct about Reagan – he attended Eureka College in Illinois, which is a small Christian college.
Trump started at Fordham before transferring to Penn
H/Y/S are not just branded for their undergraduate degrees and having attended as an undergraduate gives a student a big advantage for grad school. Guys your arguments are refuted by reality but everyone is entitled to believe what ever they want. Truman? Really. I said 30 years which was is a true statement.
Bush 41 Yale
Clinton Yale Law
Shrub Yale/ H Business
Gore H
Kerry Y
Obama Col/H Law
Romney Stanford/H Law and Business
Trump Wharton
Hillary Yale law
A blind person can see the pattern.
Thanks. It kind of makes the “point” of the list a bit stronger!
And totally forgot carter went to Navy.
And despite his obvious issues. Nixon is considered by many to be the most intellectual/high iq than anyone else on the list.
Whittier must be a pretty good school.
[url=https://qz.com/277288/princeton-is-giving-up-ground-in-its-fight-against-grade-inflation/]Princeton is giving up ground in its fight against grade inflation/url
Yes, the pattern is that it helps to get a JD or an MBA from a prestige, elite school.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with choice of undergrad.
@privatebanker-- Whittier is currently ranked #128 by US News. It has rolling admission and 69% acceptance rate. Average SAT 1130, ACT midrange 20-26.
Nixon went to Duke law and graduated 3rd in his class. The other thing to realize is that the importance of where you go to college is even more pronounced in the EU, Japan, and China to the point where it largely determines your place in their society. If you think it’s hard here take a look at this. .1% admission rate and yes in China the graduates of Tsingua and Peking University get the best jobs.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-admission-rate-at-Tsinghua-University
What part of the word “undergraduate” are you having difficulty understanding?
Knowledgeable people understand that getting into the top grads schools is much more likely from H/S/P. Both undergrad and in many fields grad schools matter.
Your knowledgeable people aren’t good at fact based analysis, are they? Or they don’t understand that correlation does not equal causation- again, not a good data point regarding how savvy they are.
Grad school almost always matters except in K-12 education and a few other fields in the helping professions. Med school doesn’t matter- although residency DOES matter for some specialties and for a career in academic medicine.
We are talking undergraduate. Different ball of wax.
Your point that Harvard et al are actively causing the problem is quite intriguing though- given how thoroughly you have drunk the Kool aid. Exactly what is it that these institutions are doing to make themselves the Rolex of higher education?
Actually, ‘knowledgeable people’ know that admission to Harvard Law (since you constantly bring up SCOTUS) is not that difficult for those with a high GPA+high LSAT score. Even a 3.9 from Podunk State has an excellent shot with a high LSAT score.
^ And the median graduate of Harvard College or Yale College has neither the GPA nor the LSAT score to be admitted to HLS or YLS. But because both of those admit a lot of people who are very good at standardized tests, and because there’s a rather pronounced regional bias toward attending law school not far from where you did your undergrad, both Harvard College and Yale College do send a lot of their graduates to both of those law schools. Less so to law schools like Chicago and Stanford which are equally esteemed in both legal academic and practicing lawyer circles.
Yes if you score 180 on the LSAT or are a URM otherwise it matters a lot where you went to college. Harvard and Yale purposely hide the precise data about admissions and only show the list of schools. My son went to Yale and I can tell you that the top schools obtain far more admissions than Podunk State but you are free to believe what you choose. Most of his classmates went to elite schools. For fun take a look at the HL faculty listing and check out the undergraduate and law schools attended. But hey if some of you want to believe your local state school offers the same opportunities as H/S/Y that is your right and in a few cases it will be true.
https://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/directory/?s=15
This is a different measure but it shows just how incredibly inbred these schools really are and just how much emphasis the academics place on attending these few schools.