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<p>Grades and SAT scores hardly predict intelligence afaik, and that’s what most colleges base their decisions on.</p>
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<p>i disagree. it may not be a perfect predictor, but it’s nowhere near ‘hardly’. </p>
<p>i don’t have much statistics, but through a quick wikipedia search i found these:
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[li]One study found a correlation of .82 between g (general intelligence factor) and SAT scores[/li][li]The American Psychological Association’s report Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns states that wherever it has been studied, children with high scores on tests of intelligence tend to learn more of what is taught in school than their lower-scoring peers. The correlation between IQ scores and grades is about .50.[/li][/ul]</p>
<p>i’m sure some would argue that IQ scores don’t <em>really</em> measure intelligence. again, i’d stress that though it’s not a perfect predictor of intelligence, it’s ridiculous to completely dismiss the IQ test in a bid to display political correctness. there definitely is a difference between a person with a 150 IQ and another 80 IQ. 140 and 150, maybe not, but that’s a different story…</p>
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<p>If you think grades and SAT scores hardly predict intelligence, you’ve met very few people with low ones.</p>
<p>But even if they did hardly predict intelligence… so what? The best colleges don’t want just the most intelligent students. If you’re intelligent but refuse to do any schoolwork you don’t like, you won’t do well in college. If you’re intelligent but are horrible at taking tests, you won’t do well in college. Being smart is not the only important thing anywhere else in life; why should it be in college admissions?</p>
<p>Also, being intelligent != being intellectually curious.</p>
<p>FWIW, here is my list of the top intellectual colleges and universities for undergraduates, listed in random order:</p>
<p>University of Chicago
Swarthmore
Columbia
St. Johns
Pomona
Carleton
Reed</p>
<p>Any and all suggestions are welcome.</p>
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<p>I honestly think the only reason the people you consider dumb do so poorly on an iq test is because they will do poorly on anything standardized.</p>
<p>I also generally don’t believe in IQ tests, I think they all they measure is cultural experiences of the middle class.</p>
<p>If you can take the SAT multiple times and get completely different scores, or study for it and get a completely different scores, I’d question it’s reliability.</p>
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<p>The college system is run the way it is run because it works. Is it the way I would like it to be run -the current brownie-point system? Probably not. But what can you do?</p>
<p>I’d compare it to World of Warcraft and Halo. Great games at launch- then they dumbed them down for the masses once they gained momentum.</p>
<p>Go to Oxford or Cambridge. </p>
<p>Unlike American universities, they (for undergraduates) don’t care about extracurriculars, donations, connections, ‘legacies’, or ‘leadership’.</p>
<p>They just try to admit the smartest students they can.</p>
<p>It might be that you are not smart enough to get in, but such a gathering place does exist.</p>
<p>^Smart is not even remotely the same as intellectual.</p>
<p>What do you mean by the terms?</p>
<p>I consider “smart” to mean naturally intelligent, a quality you’re born with. </p>
<p>I consider “intellectual” to mean someone who is interested in learning, a character trait which you are not born with.</p>
<p>I thought those were the commonly accepted definitions, what sorts of things were you thinking?</p>
<p>Right, but to get into Oxford or Cambridge you need to be intellectually curious, too – otherwise you won’t do well in the interview.</p>
<p>I take it the OP wasn’t interested in a club for intellectually curious but stupid people. Otherwise why mention the ivy league?</p>
<p>“Right, but to get into Oxford or Cambridge you need to be intellectually curious, too – otherwise you won’t do well in the interview.”</p>
<p>The fact that they wouldn’t look at any extracurriculars (which show academic interest, assuming these are academic ECs) shows the opposite to me. That’s what I thought you mentioned that comment, “nlike American universities, they (for undergraduates) don’t care about extracurriculars,” for.</p>
<p>No I mean they couldn’t give a crap about whether you founded an NGO to help Turkish basket weavers, or captained a sports team, or any of that stuff.</p>
<p>Extracurriculars have little to do with academic curiosity. Usually what you get credit for here is “leadership ability.” Oxbridge has a rigorous interview process.</p>
<p>Oxbridge is still far inferior to the Internet due to the cost, lack of access, inconvenient location, and I’m sure several other things I could come with.</p>
<p>^ Haha. Inconvenient location? I don’t think most people would describe ‘an hour outside London’ as an inconvenient location.</p>
<p>And as for lack of access… well that’s what comes with having a club for the smartest, most intellectually curious people. A lot won’t make the cut.</p>
<p>You’re right about the cost though. (Though for European residents it only costs about $5,000 a year).</p>
<p>The trouble with the internet is that access is too easy, it promotes shallowness (there are lots of things you can’t learn from a blog post), and it’s too easy to walk away from criticism. At Cambridge you have a weekly 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 meeting with your professor, where you have to defend a paper you wrote. Nothing on the internet can match that.</p>
<p>" Inconvenient location? I don’t think most people would describe ‘an hour outside London’ as an inconvenient location."</p>
<p>Everyone who doesn’t live an hour in that direction outside of London. I can get online in my basement. I can’t go to either Oxford or Cambridge in my basement.</p>
<p>" At Cambridge you have a weekly 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 meeting with your professor, where you have to defend a paper you wrote."</p>
<p>Look at some of the threads here. Given, you’re generally not going against PHDs teaching at Oxbridge, but still smart people. If you want smarter people, or more specific topics, find different forums. </p>
<p>Given though, that does sound like a good learning experience.</p>
<p>“And as for lack of access… well that’s what comes with having a club for the smartest, most intellectually curious people. A lot won’t make the cut”</p>
<p>A. **** that. That’s lame.</p>
<p>B. There’s plenty of smart people on the Internet. If you’re looking for smart people you can find them.</p>