Gay Smithies - Once and for All

[TheDad]

<p>

Many of my friends are gay–it’s probably about half and half. But it doesn’t really matter…my friends have met women I’ve dated, I’ve met men and women that they’ve dated, and there’s really no big difference in how a boyfriend v. a girlfriend is treated. I’m happy when my friends are in relationships that make them happy, and they feel the same about me. And our friendships are based on a lot more than who we date–I can talk with my friends about property tax reform or how we feel about graduating or why it would be awesome if one of us got rich one day and endowed a sauna on campus. They’re wonderful people who have shaped and enriched my life in ways I probably don’t even fully appreciate yet.

</p>

<p>Cheers and whistles. Brava. Exactly. And I think my straight D feels the same way. And yet many parents and some straight prospects develop reservations about Smith when they hear about the high gay population. *It just doesn’t matter.*But instead of ignoring the issue, you have to walk them through it, as you have just done. And with that done, they can turn their attention to all the other wonderful qualities that Smith has. </p>

<p>The prospect/parent population divides into thirds: there are the bigots who aren’t going to attend in any event, there those who say “Yippee!” or otherwise don’t give it a second thought, and then there are what you could call the “Umm…urrr…'s.” The Ummurrs aren’t anti-gay but have concerns about how they’ll fit in, if there’s pressure on straights from gays, etc.</p>

<p>Arianneag, I don’t think the overall Smith experience depends on where you live. The mix in houses changes from year to year and, as Stacy notes, it’s not a big deal. Last year(?) there was the [what I took as humorous] comment from some quarters about Sessions was the House where “not even the walls are straight.” But I took that as funny, not as any sort of internal snark.</p>

<p>Speaking of snarks…

LOL–You had an ad hominem attack edited by the mod. What color was that kettle? Smile It’s not a bid deal.

Actually…NOT. The deleted text was a response to the tone of parts of your previous post, rendering my comment out of context and superfluous.

It’s not personal, TD, and you know it. It’s a different of opinion and who has the right to speak for the Smith student body, and if one is going to make proclamations the veracity of their knowledge.

Distorting what I’ve said and impugning both my integrity and my knowledge is bloody well personal. It is not a question of speaking for Smith, yet another red herring; it’s a question of speaking to a subject that you would rather not see discussed, period. I offer insights. Readers are free to draw their own conclusions or to use the points raised in further investigations on their own, including visiting. I defy you to find any text that suggests I think I’m speaking ex cathedra.

If you want to keep beating the drum, fine, but you’re certainly not doing the GLBT cause any favors, and all you’re doing is solidifying the stereotype of Smith.

Eh?! I don’t know where you extract that as a motive. The GBLT “cause” seems to be well equipped to take care of itself. “Doing favors” for the “GBLT cause” is competely irrelevant.

Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if other competing colleges interest in the Smith message board hasn’t been piqued and they’re cataloging all this bs and toasting each other b/c they’re bound to get a bump due to some students fleeing the perceived Smith environment .
If Princeton can hack Harvard’s puter systems looking for admission stats anything is possible-lol

I could not care less about what representatives of competing colleges think/don’t think, do/don’t do about this thread or any other discussion. My concerns are about conveying relevant pictures and thoughts of Smith to parents and prospects, the most likely readers of this board. I have no tolerance for any notions of Soviet-style information management, keeping anything controversial, possibly unpopular, or contrary to the party line, under wraps for fear of repercussions. </p>

<p>You seem to think that negative issues with respect to the make-up of the Smith student body isn’t out there if we don’t talk about it. By serendipity, I spoke to another Smith parent about this thread earlier today. The response was dead on: “It’s idiotic not to think that rumor (see some of TMP’s excellent comments [posts #56, 66] about various perceptions) isn’t out there ahead of the facts. The best you can do is give the facts in <em>all</em> dimensions (which sums up as that wonderful post by Stacy).”

Fair enough, but if it puzzled you and you had to re-read you post several to understand what you meant, don’t get upset with me or Smithies who read what you wrote and took it at face value or the fact it appeared you were calling 1/3 liars. i.e. dishonest

Another misreading on your part. I was not puzzled by the meaning of my own post upon re-reading, upon re-reading I was puzzled as to how anyone could be so obtuse to extract from it that I thought 1/3 of Smith students were liars.

You claim to have “immersed” yourself in all things Smith, however, I suggest you should try a different immersion technique b/c your current one isn’t working. If you truly had a pulse of the Smith campus, you’d know the students are sick and tired of having the gay issue posted all over the message boards time and time again, gays included. That’s not personal, TD, I’m simply saying you’re in error.

As someone indicated earlier in this thread, it’s not an issue for those <em>at</em> Smith or recent alumnae. If this were a Smith BB, I doubt I’d waste a phosphor on the issue. But this is for prospective students and their parents and in that context, what current Smith students may think is irrelevant.

}}I’ve talked to (more like 80, plus more than a dozen alumnae, plus former and current admissions officers, i}}</p>

<p>You say you talked to them but you didn’t even know administrators were reading this board when I told you they were. Again, I believe everyone should call admissions and ask for themselves what the gay influence is before they visit.</p>

<p>And counted how many students you talked to? That’s great. You an accountant?

No, I’m not an accountant and a more accurate response would be “several dozen.” I was responding to your attempt to impugn my assertions and experience by your snide ridicule that I had “talked to 12 or so students” as the basis of my remarks. I’ve talked to a lot of people and my views are a synthesis of a lot of conversations with a wide variety of people. As something of a scratch journalist, I know a thing or three about interviewing people in the course of conversation.

TD, I think it’s great you got an email and helped someone. I wish I could post privates PM’s and emails b/c, I, too, have received PM’s from students sacred to death by comments made here. One I personally know of crossed Smith off her list until I was able to arrange a visit. She sent her deposit to Smith a couple of weeks ago. How many other students were lost that we don’t know about? Fwiw–The woman turned down an Ivy for Smith. Yeahhhhh</p>

<p>The fact this woman no longer would consider Smith b/c of scare tactics, or wishful thinking by some, however, thankfully changed her mind after visiting Smith should solidify in everyone’ psyche there should longer be any discussion or editorials about the gay issue going forward except to say there are gays on campus, some have no problem showing intense affection in public, you need to visit, talk to students, recent alumnae, and decide for yourself if gays have the “huge” influence, as some proclaim (it’s easy enough to find the posts) on Smith’s student life. Seriously, TD, I realize men want to believe everything is huge but your idea of huge could very well be nothing more than a ho hum to others.

For whatever purposes I can only speculate, you wish to suppress discussion of the make-up of Smith’s student body with respect to orientation. You claim the subject is overblown. And I’ll tell you that many have never heard the term LUG or BUG until they started investigating Smith. That makes it either unique or in very small company. </p>

<p>I agree that the <em>best</em> thing for any prospect to do is to visit campus. But many will not do so before applying and many will be informed by ill-founded rumors and gossip out there which, apparently, you are fortunate not to have encountered. Folks like TMP and myself <em>have</em> encountered it and it’s pretty pervasive. Making the subject worthy of discussion, culminating in wonderful things like Stacy’s post.</p>

<p>To which I would add, my [straight] D is finishing her second year at Smith and I couldn’t be more pleased with her total experience and now she wouldn’t go to even a HYPS school if one came calling. It’s a terrific experience, all the way around.

I, and most Smithes, still believe it’s sad Smith is the only board with extensive gay threads.

Find another school where BUG, LUG, and “heteronormative” are parts of the vocabulary of normal discourse.

I’m finished…

One could hope. Your persistent denial, minimizing the non-straight attributes of Smith, have blown this discussion up into a far bigger issue more than anything else.</p>

[hey_la]

<p>Hey Stacy–</p>

<p>Thanks for the quick rundown of your Smith experience; honestly, it sounds <em>exactly</em> like the college experience I’d like to have, awesome friends, lots of prof. contact, funky town, etc. Not looking for the love of my life, but it’d definitely be nice to find some girls to date after 4 years in a school where I consist of entire queer population/a conservative city. </p>

<p>And I do hope you/your friends strike it rich someday and endow the Smith campus with a sauna. Though I’m more of a jacuzzi person myself :)</p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>Not looking for the love of my life, but it’d definitely be nice to find some girls to date after 4 years in a school where I consist of entire queer population/a conservative city.]]</p>

<p>Gezz, that must have been hard. It will be over soon, you’ll be at Smith–not Holyoke:)-- and be happy.</p>

<p>Haven’t you seen Northampton yet?</p>

<p>Tell ya what, show me how to do your Asian Kosher cooking and I’ll see to it you get the jacuzzi :)</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>[edited out - It is a TOS violation to comment on moderator actions on the forum. -Mod JEM] </p>

<p>[You seem to think that negative issues with respect to the make-up of the Smith student body isn’t out there if we don’t talk about it.]]</p>

<p>Oh god, Freudian slip, please tell me you don’t believe gays and their make-up of the student body is a negative issue in your eyes. But if that’s how you feel, well…</p>

<p>I believe I’ve finally realized why we don’t see things in the same vein, and for the most part no one needs to read any further. You believe gays are a “negative” aspect/issue regarding Smith that needs to be discussed and future students need to be ^warned^ about “the issue” like I warn my daughter about frat houses. Otoh_ I believe gay women are simply that, women that are gay and b/c I see nothing negative about the issue no warning is necessary, except to inform prospective students if they’re not comfortable around diversity go to BYU. Actually I say more than that, read below, but you get the idea.</p>

<p>I can’t imagine what it must be like to be part of a group that people believe they need to be warned about. It must be a horrible feeling. </p>

<p>We’ll never agree TD. I see gay women as a non issue as, Carol Christ, the Smith president does, you don’t, simple as that. </p>

<p>[[[But I have too many clients and friends, including close friends, who are gay and I could not look them in the eye if I did not speak for them when they could not speak for themselves. In some ways, my politics are very feudal in that I put a high premium on personal obligations…I simply can’t betray my friends, or the friends of my D. Etc.}]</p>

<p>WHAT??? Why is your personal life [edited out _ MOd JEM] dictating your feelings when discussing Smith? So this has been about your gay friends, speaking for them and daughter all this time? Fer petes sake, why didn’t you just say so? It would have made things much more understandable You’re making remarks about Smith b/c of <em>personal obligations</em> to your friends and daughter and you want to be able to look them in the eye? OK But for god sake big guy, what in heavens do personal obligations and the fact you don’t want to betray friends, your daughter or your daughter’s friends and have pleasant eye contact have to do with Smith? This is a Smith board, not a “friend” message board, but I can give you a link if you want to such a board. Just ask. You know I’d always help ya</p>

<p>The other thing that keeps gnawing at me is you never address the issue about the emails and PM’s I’ve received by women who have been so scared to death by the many effrontery comments on this board that I have to console and beg them to visit Smith, so they can see for themselves what they read isn’t reality, in most cases. Doesn’t that concern you in the slightest? I thought you wanted to increase app’s not scare women away. Am I wrong?</p>

<p>2600 hundred hits on this thread. How many hundreds were students who took one look never to return?</p>

<p>[[The prospect/parent population divides into thirds: there are the bigots who aren’t going to attend in any event, there those who say “Yippee!” or otherwise don’t give it a second thought, and then there are what you could call the “Umm…urrr…'s.” The Ummurrs aren’t anti-gay but have concerns about how they’ll fit in, if there’s pressure on straights from gays, etc.]]</p>

<p>Where did you get those stats? Are they on the Smith website? And you can only speak of [edited out - Mod JEM. PLease do not post potentially identifying information about other posters] as you’ve never been to a party elsewhere, have you? If I’m wrong and you travel the country attending parties, please accept my humblest apologies</p>

<p>fwiw- I’ve NEVER met a women who was worried if a gay women was going to pressure them and you’ve been doing this for a couple of couple yrs ? as opposed to our 25 + yrs. I can guarantee you, by the time you or I talk to any women, they already know their fair share of gay women. This is a new millennium. Being gay in h/s isn’t a big deal anymore. </p>

<p>My wife’s gay Smith friends never though of themselves as part of a negative issue. Dunno, for the sake of politeness I’ll assume maybe things have changed. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and let the negative issue stand</p>

<p>[[No, I’m not an accountant and a more accurate response would be “several dozen.” ]]</p>

<p>Ok, thanks, we’re down to 36 from 80-- we’re making progress with how many students you really have had in-depth conversations with. Again, TD, I’ve always appreciated your honesty. Seriously, I mean that. ;)</p>

<p>It is not a question of speaking for Smith,]]</p>

<p>Sure it is. You’re telling everyone what it’s like to attend Smith but you’ve never attended the college and you talked to 36 students out of 2600++
I talked to 36 before I could shave ok, we didn’t talk about thattttt.</p>

<p>TD, I appreciate you care so much for the future students. I really do. Your concern is commendable but read recent alumna’s post again. She sums it up nicely “you know who has the right to speak for the smith student body? no one. you have a right to speak about your experience. but that doesn’t make you, TD, or anyone else here, including me, an authority”</p>

<p>[[Making the subject worthy of discussion, culminating in wonderful things like Stacy’s post.]]&lt;/p>

<p>Stacy’s wonderful post said the gay women were icing on the cake, not the cake. I agree. The prevailing
attitude on the Smith campus ( the cake) is not hugely affected by the gay presence. It’s effected by the great professors, amazing women and classes, super town, beautiful houses, diversity, dinning, the pond ( I luv the pond, can ya tell?) etc.</p>

<p>[But this is for prospective students and their parents and in that context, what current Smith students may think is irrelevant</p>

<p>TD, I don’t mean any disrespect, you’re a good fella, but I believe that says about all you can say. I appreciate your honesty and integrity for making it clear you could care less how the students feel b/c they’re irrelevant. Never mind the fact they’re sick and tired of gay threads, making gays an issue when all most want to be considered are Smith students and that prospective students are getting the entirely wrong view of Smith on this board. I’m beginning to understand, what current students think is irreverent so your opinions must be what’s relevant. Ok, fair enough, I can live with that if we’re upfront about it. Recent Alumna might disagree. I suppose what recent alumna thinks is irrelevant too? </p>

<p>[inappropriate comment edited out - Mod JEM]</p>

<p>]] Your persistent denial, minimizing the non-straight attributes of Smith,]]</p>

<p>Minimizing the gays on campus is the last thing I have done or believe should <em>ever</em> be done. I’ve come about as close as I can saying every student will sooner or later, probably sooner, see two women damn near making love on the lawn or elsewhere (the pond?)
So what, why make it a big deal? I suppose you’d make the c**t club at Wesleyan an issue? Speaking of which, Smith and Wesleyan are very similar when is comes to students accepting any lifestyle and Wesleyan has it’s fair share of alternative lifestyle students. Wonder why no one makes it big issue on their board? Hmmm
[And I’ll tell you that many have never heard the term LUG or BUG until they started investigating Smith]]</p>

<p>So, I know of numerous women who didn’t know the LUG BUG babes before they looked at Smith too. That doesn’t correlate or have a thing to do with your assertion lesbians have a “huge” influence on the atmosphere at Smith. It simply means the ^goils^ get to learn a few new acronyms.</p>

<p>Learning new words, so to speak, is a wonderful thing though.</p>

<p>Hey, I didn’t know what a keg stand was before I went to college either but it didn’t mean the college was full of drunks. otoh-- the fraternity house was, so maybe you’re on to something LUG, BUG means huge gay influence. I get it.</p>

<p>[Find another school where BUG, LUG, and “heteronormative” are parts of the vocabulary of normal discourse.]]</p>

<p>You’re on the campus all the time to hear what the normal discourse is among students? I apologize then. I, and my Smithie wifey are getting a wonderful giggle out of this one. Those words are used so rarely after anyone first learns them, it’s almost as if they don’t exist. And she’s never heard the word “hetronormative” ever used and isn’t really sure what the bejesous it really means. The kido and company- cell phones are wonderful oui?- haven’t the faintest idea what it means either. Have you been playing with the dictionary again or was this a trick? If it was, toche, very good. :)</p>

<p>I’ll leave you with this thought from one who knows more than either of us b/c she’s been associated with Smith indirectly for longer than almost anyone here</p>

<p>An Ivy League researcher, prof and friend put it very succinctly, paraphrasing; Smith is a great college for women that has gays as part of the student body. The day it’s associated with nothing more than gay issues, it will become known as a gay woman’s college and its credibility and allure will be greatly diminished.</p>

<p>Let’s hope that never happens, even though some people near and dear to me here are doing their best to have the college known otherwise.</p>

[Momwaitingfornew]

<p>Wow - this thread has generated some intense emotions.</p>

<p>I agree with RLT who said that a heated argument about lesbianism might give a skewed view of Smith, but, in my opinion, this is exactly what makes Smith different from other all-women’s colleges: an openness about what lies behind glossy presentations. All women’s colleges have a substantial gay population, but you wouldn’t know it from CC.</p>

<p>One of the things I love about Smith is the blatant individuality on the campus, whether gay, straight, green-haired, preppy, funky, tatooed . . . whatever. Smith students seems to accept their classmates for what they are. </p>

<p>Here are the facts as I see them:</p>

<ol>
<li>A large percentage of Smith students are gay.</li>
<li>A large percentage of Smith students are straight.</li>
<li>A large percentage of Smith students love their college and its opportunities.</li>
</ol>

<p>While, yes, the open homosexuality may be an issue for some prospects, it should not be a deterrant for open-minded individuals - exactly those who would most likely want to attend Smith. I’m sure a lot of closeted gays attend Smith and come out simply because the environment allows them to be themselves. Likewise, I’m sure that a lot of closeted science lovers attend Smith and come out because the environment teaches them not to fear chemistry. :-)</p>

<p>While the heated arguments about the lesbian/straight percentages might give prospectives a skewed idea of what really happens on campus (an open and even substantial lesbian population does NOT make Smith a queer college as a whole), let’s not forget that the prospective students also have other threads to read: Why An All-Women’s College?, the Smith Game, and the impassioned one about the distinctive nature of each house.</p>

<p>I am going to miss my daughter next year, but I’m thrilled that she will be attending Smith. She will be getting a first-rate education at a school that values individuality. What more could I ask?</p>

[hey_la]

<p>Just FYI from a high schoolers POV:
-While there are lots of gay teens in areas like NYC, LA, etc., that’s probably not quite the case in more rural and/or conservative areas. I’m thinking that being gay in high school there probably <em>is</em> a big deal, but please feel free to correct me if your experience has been otherwise.<br>
-Sad to say, but a lot of girls are uncomfortable with queer girls. <em>Real</em> ones, that is, not just girls who make out with their friends to impress guys.</p>

<p>Annnd yeah, just to agree with Stacy: Reading this thread makes me wish people were nicer to each other on it, too. </p>

<p>P.S. Rlt, if I know what heteronormative means and have actually used it in conversation over the past weekend <insert blushing=“” face=“” here=“”>–and keg stand, too, come to think of it–is that a sign from above about about me/Smith ;)?</insert></p>

[plum1]

<p>As a parent of a high school senior, who lives in Manhattan, I can tell you that although most students are more familiar with the idea of gay people these days then when I went to h.s. in the 70’s, that doesn’t make them particularly comfortable with the concept. There are a lot of anti gay comments that are made, unfortunately, though these students consider themselves “liberals.” They are teens unsure about themselves and their sexuality, and basically, immature. They are also probably parroting comments they have heard their parents make. </p>

<p>I think the open discussion about gay people/diversity on women’s colleges and for that matter on most colleges these days is good for prospective students; it helps prepare them for the transition between high school norms and college life.</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>that’s probably not quite the case in more rural and/or conservative areas. I’m thinking that being gay in high school there probably ]]]</p>

<p>Good point. I taught in a rural h/s in VT for a yr. I don’t believe there are less per se, but far less will /come out/ due to the social conservatism. It’s a shame.</p>

<p>[[that a sign from above about about me/Smith ?]]</p>

<p>I sure hope so. You sound like an amazing woman and we need to get you to a funky town. I lived in parts of rural VT and NH so I know just how you feel You’ll love Northampton, I lived there and miss it immensely Oh yeah, you’ll love Smith too</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>[[There are a lot of anti gay comments that are made,]]</p>

<p>Agreed, but mostly about guys. I have a daughter in the local school, and I volunteer there. Neither of us have heard of a woman being ridiculed for her sexuality. Granted, we’re in a pretty sophisticated and liberal area and the school hhas ZERO tolerance for slurs, so I should be careful about speaking for the entire country. </p>

<p>{{I think the open discussion about gay people/diversity on women’s colleges and for that matter on most colleges these days is good for prospective students}}</p>

<p>Absolutely, I don’t think it gets much more open that this–lol</p>

<p>The discussion is HOW much to what degree of a influence the gay population effects the environment at Smith. It’s no different an the arguments about the effect of the binge drinking and fraternities at Dartmouth. Many believe neither is an issue, others won’t even apply because they be believe both are extreme b/c of hearsay and second hand opinions of parents who never attend the college.
I’ve never been a fan of second hand knowledge and making broad generalizations and value judgements about colleges one never attended, that applies to me also;</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>let’s not forget that the prospective students also have other threads to read]]</p>

<p>I’m extremely reluctant to argue with a Brown alumna. I’ve had my head handed to me by more than one in the ol days. </p>

<p>I agree with what you’re saying, but the other threads are meaningless if a future student is half scared to death. You’ve witnessed dozens of students on other boards absolutely refuse to consider a college b/c they abhor binge drinking, drunks and fraternities they believe are prevalent and control the social environment at certain colleges. Never mind the fact it is often a falsehood- Dartmouth for one. </p>

<p>The same dynamics are at work here.</p>

[momofsmithie]

<p>Future students should realize that the percent of first year’s at Smith who identify as gay and bisexual is about the same as the general population (age 18-22) according to many recent studies! Smith is a melting pot, diverse in many ways – women from all 50 states, most religions and races, many nations and varied socioeconomic backgrounds. Scientists to government majors, engineers to artists. That’s a huge part of its appeal for the right woman. Gays are just one piece of the pie.</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>Rlt, if I know what heteronormative means and have actually used it in conversation over the past weekend ]]</p>

<p>PS–You sure know how to embarrass a few Smithies. My wife, even with her advanced degree from a top U, still claims she doesn’t know what it means, nor did my Smith kid and her friends. See, Smith does need you. You must educate a few unenlightened souls</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>Future students should realize that the percent of first year’s at Smith who identify as gay and bisexual is about the same as the general population (age 18-22) according to many recent studies! Smith is a melting pot, diverse in many ways – women from all 50 states, most religions and races, many nations and varied socioeconomic backgrounds. Scientists to government majors, engineers to artists. That’s a huge part of its appeal for the right woman. Gays are just one piece of the pie.]]</p>

<p>Oh goddddddd with a small d thank you. </p>

<p>This gay thread is getting more hits than the lesbain TV show on HBO.</p>

<p>We should be discussing the science program, the amazing art dept, Deans doing keg stands in front of a 100 women ( may fav) the great international component, the amazing financial aid and the great kids from charter schools on Pell grants (there’s one I love in particular) or the fact all the treadmills have their own TV’s (talk about spoiled) and the fact the cooks make special meals for the kids (gezz, spoiled again) in amazing houses.</p>

[Momwaitingfornew]

<p>Ha! I’m a Dartmouth alumna. :-)</p>

<p>I know exactly what you’re saying, and I do agree. However, I don’t think it’s wise to hide the fact that there is a visible gay presence on the Smith campus. Going away to college is enough of an adjustment without a student’s having to deal with the complete shock of not knowing that Smith lesbians are open with their sexual orientation.</p>

<p>Certainly this openness does have an effect on the campus, but not necessarily an overwhelming one. I can’t answer whether it is indeed a “heavy presence” or not since I’m not a student there. Certainly, those students who have responded to this thread know better than the parents, or even the alumnae, do. They should be listened to more closely than anyone else, even though their experiences also have to be understood as anecdotal - just a few voices and experiences out of many.</p>

<p>I really don’t think the percentage of gay students is worth arguing about, although the stats are interesting. </p>

<p>I will go on record as saying this: straight students should NOT be afraid to attend Smith because some of its students are gay. You will find gay students on almost any campus (Bob Jones U. comes to mind as an exception :-). Hell, when I was in college back in the days before people were more open about their sexuality, several of my friends, including one of my future bridesmaids, came out because the liberal college atmosphere gave them courage to do so. Now, I can imagine that orientation is even more transparent simply because the stigma, while not gone, is fading.</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>Ha! I’m a Dartmouth alumna. :-']]</p>

<p>Opsss. Sorry, Even better. Otoh—Dartmouth women have handed me my head significantly more times, Darn!! Know any SAEs? Hope not :)</p>

<p>[Certainly this openness does have an effect on the campus, but not necessarily an overwhelming one]</p>

<p>God, with a big D you’re good. The gays don’t effect the daily life or environment at Smith any more than the snow. Both are there but neither make Smith Smith. And I said repeatably, the gays need to be discussed, as you sated, but not made out to be a negative issue, a focal point, or huge influence on campus. I’ve even used as an example a poor woman from a small framing community as an example of what can happen when no such discussion takes place.</p>

<p>Now at Dartmouth, the friggin snow and cold is…;)</p>

[TheDad]

<p>

I believe I’ve finally realized why we don’t see things in the same vein, and for the most part no one needs to read any further. You believe gays are a “negative” aspect/issue regarding Smith that needs to be discussed and future students need to be ^warned^ about “the issue” like I warn my daughter about frat houses.

</p>

<p>Nothing could be further from the truth and I find it difficult, if not impossible, to understand how an honest reading of my posts would lead anyone to such a conclusion.</p>

<p>I just got home from church and have to turn around and head out to a longish day’s work and so don’t have time to respond at length. But this conclusion is totally contemptible. But consistent with the distortions, misreadings, and irrelvancies included in previous responses.</p>

[ticklemepink]

<p>Due to encouragement, as I will say, I am being asked to post my straight up opinions about where this thread has gone:</p>

<p>[edited out - Mod JEM]</p>

<p>I just feel that I can trust RLT and other more <em>experienced</em> people on the CC more because for RLT’s case, he’s seen Smith change over the years, his wife is a Smithie, and he just has a more frank opinion about it. TD’s views are just too idealistic and almost like my mother’s before I told her to shut up and that Smith isn’t everything in the world. Also they speak for THEMSELVES, not for anyone else. That’s why so many CC-ers get in touch with these people when they’re scared to death. I have gotten more than one PM from people asking about Colgate that they were too scared to ask on the board that were personal issues. They commented my frankness and honesty and felt that they could trust me not to distort Colgate in any shape or form. We both feel good that we can do our job in helping people to identify their right <em>fit</em> by helping them to evaluate their comfort level, likes and dislikes, and ability to handle different type of challenges."</p>

<p>Please, when posting, speak about your OWN experiences and no dramatizing. Even though I have good friends at other schools like Northeastern, Princeton, UMass, Simmons, and RIT, I don’t post about their experiences if I don’t know the answer to a specific question. As much I love Princeton, I don’t say anything more about what I’ve seen there other than a campus tour and what I’ve heard from my friend specifically. This is exactly why I only stick to specific boards on CC- in places where I CAN answer questions honestly so people are getting a dose of reality, especially the scared, curious, and excited young ones who are looking for a great college experience. Internet is filled with lies, dramas, and other untrue material and this CC forum is our best opportunity to make this an exception because we want them to have the BEST experience ever and this is one of the ONLY sources that these people can turn to for truth. </p>

<p>Let this be a lesson for EVERYONE, not just TheDad.</p>

[JEM]

<p>This thread has more than served its purpose, and unfortunately has disintegrated into bickering among posters, rather than thoughtful discussion of the topic. Therefore I am closing it – but not deleting it, as the thread does contain some worthwhile discussion of the topic. </p>

<p>I wish to remind posters that posts should be focused on the topic of the thread, not characteristics of other posters. This forum is a site dedicated to the exchange of information about colleges, and is neither a debating society nor a sparring parlor. Different points of view are fine and are expected; CC would be a boring community without them. However, it is never acceptable to turn a disagreement about facts or opinions into a critique of another member, i.e., to question the intelligence, experience, motivation, etc. of another member.</p>

<p>Please note the following clause from the Terms of Service:
“General Behavior. Our forum is expected to be a friendly and welcoming place, and one in which members can post without their motives, intelligence, or other personal characterstics being questioned by others. Members who post in a manner that makes other members unwelcome or uncomfortable, or who conduct themselves in a manner in any way detrimental to the College Confidential community, will lose posting privileges.”</p>

<p>Please address any concerns about moderation to the moderating team. Thanks for your cooperation in keeping College Confidential a cordial environment for all our posters. - Mod JEM</p>