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Many UGA Honors and Tech Honors students are in the same position. Many of these students come from middle-class families who would probably qualify for a limited amount of financial aid, if any. That’s why all this talk of making HOPE need-based or means-tested is absurd. Either option would drive many top students out of Georgia’s flagships, or out of Georgia altogether.</p>
<p>With Atlanta as one of the more dynamic cities in the US with growth in most sectors is there really any concern over Georgia having a significant issue with brain drain? When I worked in Atlanta they were easily importing college grads from around the US. My office was full of MBA’s from all over from Cal to Harvard. Seems like a solution in search of a problem.</p>
<p>re: barrons: that’s what I was trying to say. If you have the jobs, they will come.</p>
<p>In my school, curves really depend on the teacher. My APUSH teacher is the hardest teacher I’ve ever had. He has never given a curve, but the other APUSH teacher who is much easier (I had him freshman year) gave a 65 point curve on a test. My class average was in the upper 60’s, while the other teacher had mostly B’s and A’s. In Physics, we were required to have the county’s final and the COUNTY’s average for the final was a 50%. There was no curve given. I live in a huge county which is known for their academics though. I have to work for my grades; there is no grade deflation. I cannot detest for other Georgia high schools however.</p>
<p>I think the biggest thing wrong with Georgia high schools is the math curriculum. We have integrated math. My class has always been the guinea pigs with the new math curriculum. I was in accelerated math freshman year and literally half of the kids failed the class first semester; subsequently, even more kids failed college prep math which is much easier. I am now in college prep math which isn’t as easy I would have thought. I have gotten A’s, but I have much easier <em>honors</em> classes. I do know some history CP classes are very easy. My school doesn’t add weight to honors classes, only AP.</p>
<p>I am pretty sure my schools valedictorian is going to UGA. My APUSH teacher also mentioned how a lot of kids at UGA loose their Hope after the first semester. I do not know how hard it is, but UGA is a huge party school. I have several friends in college, and every single one suggests that college is much easier. I also have friends at Indiana U and UIC and they agree that college is easier (one is a junior), but they didn’t go to high school in Georgia. My chemistry teacher thought her AP Chem class was much easier than her UGA chem class. I’ve heard AP classes are much harder than actual college courses. This will probably depend on where you go to school because I doubt this is true with top schools. But most of my friends at state schools will agree with me. My mother did better in college as well and she went in the 90’s. My friends who are taking dual enrollment are doing great too.</p>
<p>Also, we are required to have four years of science to graduate: biology, chemistry, physics, and a science elective. My friends in South Florida are only required to take biology and two other science classes (does not have to be chemistry or physics). A 70% is passing in my county, but in Palm Beach a 60% is passing. I really think that is a big difference. A friend from California told me that a 50% was passing when she lived there. My parents didn’t have to take physics and chemistry and they are fine. I have looked at other state’s graduation requirements and my county exceeds most public schools I have seen.</p>
<p>Luckily I never had to deal with that integrated math mess. I think that was a step in the wrong direction. College is easier in the sense that there is more time. HS was so structured and if you’re taking 1 million APs with a lot of unnecessary HW and busy work assignments, it’s way more stressful. This is how it was for me. However, overall it’s still harder, though less stressful. The exams are generally much tougher and given that you seemingly have so much time, the assignments/projects you do have, tend to sneak up. College being difficult in this sense clearly overrides the other way in which people site it as being “easier” as indicated by the fact that most of our grades are lower. Keep in mind that our averages going into say Emory, Tech, or UGA were like 3.6-3.8 yet the average graduating GPA is 3.1 for Tech, 3.2 for UGA, and 3.38 for Emory (grade inflated+ other factors, but still much lower than the average GPA from HS). College is “less stressful” not “easier”. Easier on social life, not grades for most. </p>
<p>I talked to a friend at UGA who was in gen. chem this past semester. I’ve seen their exams, and they aren’t close to rivaling our’s or Tech’s. However, they don’t get much practice (or P-sets) and have those huge lecture halls and limited access to profs. and TAs. This makes an easy class hard. The more accessible and proactive the prof. or learning resources are, the more success there will be, no matter how hard the course content or pace is. Like some organic chemistry sections here take both Tech and UGA on a ride in terms of difficulty in terms of content and exams(Tech and UGA seem to standardize it across sections to a large degree, where we don’t), yet students in these sections do much better than counterparts in less difficult sections here or elsewhere. So sometimes it’s not the material or pace that makes a course truly difficult, it can easily be things like the environment and teaching quality/style.</p>
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<p>Clearly, eliminating the program or reducing the # of eligible students would take $ and students away from Georgia universities – I don’t know how to quantify the impact that HOPE reductions would have on the state economy, but I bet it would be significant. IMO an educated workforce is not so much a problem now as it was 20 or 30 years ago, when legislators began talking about the idea of a lottery to fund higher education. Statewide, Georgia K-12 was often ranked as the worst or second-to-worst (or third-to-worst, if we’re lucky). K-12 still ranks at or near dead-last. Since HOPE, higher ed. has improved dramatically (I think Georgia, of all places, is one of 3 states with at least 2 public universities ranked in the top 60 by US News, the other two states being California and Virginia).</p>
<p>Is HOPE absolutely necessary? I don’t think so. Having said that, it sure has helped a lot of GA students afford college, and it’s also convinced many higher-achieving students to stay in the state for college (thus helping the economy directly and indirectly).</p>
<p>I should add we did not hire any professionals from colleges inside Georgia except in accounting and other support areas so the entire Hope thing had zero impact for us. Most or our people came from other states–even as to original home town. Not hard getting good people to move to Atlanta. This was a major national investment company with a large branch in Atlanta.</p>
<p>Bernie: Most of the people I know do not go to Tech or Emory, but my friends at Kennesaw, GA Southern, GA State, etc are doing better than in high school. It really depends on your major as well and where you are going. You are at Emory, but I’m sure you would have a higher GPA at Georgia State. My mother’s GPA was better in college as well and my teachers have told me that college is easier. They did not go to prestigious schools. It really depends where one goes because you will not have the same experience at Georgia Southern than you will at Harvard. I am not in college, but I have been told the same thing over and over again. I’ve also had many AP teachers told me their class is harder than an actual college class. Again, it depends on where you go and what your major is.</p>
<p>I suppose that’s true. Never thought about it that way. I actually met a person before who transferred from here to Georgia State (he said he had very low grades or something the first semester) and then back sophomore year. I guess the only way I see this person being admitted through transfer is if they made significantly higher grades at Georgia State counterparts. I’m also thinking that this reflects the curriculum is different at other places too. I’ve seen some schools allow people to start with say college algebra whereas the lowest one can go at Tech or here is calc. or stats., and maybe pre-calc. at UGA. Plus some have “pre-biology” classes that those not prepped for “real” intro. bio can take and normally it is far easier than the real one. We have one for non-majors, but it is still quite difficult b/c of the prof. and in any case it’s not acceptable for a pre-med or bio major to ever take that course.</p>
<p>However, even if what you say is true. I think K-12 education in Georgia could do a lot more to prep. the many undergraduates (like a decent number out of the 30K between the two) who will attend places like Tech or UGA. I’m pretty sure you’re right about teaching the math courses better.</p>
<p>Actually, at UGA one does not have to take precal first. You can take Mathematics of Decision Making instead: <a href=“http://www.bulletin.uga.edu/GenEdCore.html[/url]”>http://www.bulletin.uga.edu/GenEdCore.html</a></p>
<p>You can still get away with taking easier math and science classes at UGA. I think what makes people loose hope at UGA is more due to partying. </p>
<p>In certain parts, Georgia can improve a lot with K-12 education. But I do think there are certain counties (including mine) which standardized test scores are higher than the national average. I go to a public school. South Georgia usually brings the scores down. </p>
<p>I think Georgia Tech is a gread deal for instate, but many students are put off by all the math and science. I don’t know how you can get around it at Tech.</p>
<p>You don’t have to take it, but it’s offered. It’s not even offered here or at Tech. I always thought you can test out of it by merely having a high enough SAT or AP score at UGA.</p>
<p>Yes Tech is an excellent deal, but admittedly it and UGA are completely different. Less technologically focused students won’t want to go to Tech for the reason you mentioned. Even its liberal arts school is geared toward that. If you are pre-med or something, most want schools like Emory or UGA where you can technically take less science courses and inflate your gpa by taking the easiest social science/humanities. Unfortunately, some don’t realize that they want this and a more balanced curriculum until they arrive at Georgia Tech. At that point, it’s a bit too late, and they can kiss any chance of transferring goodbye if they don’t do well.</p>