Geraldine Ferraro

<p>^Christcorp</p>

<p>No, you can’t say RACIST things or FEAR MONGERING things without being called a racist fear-mongerer(don’t know if i spelled that right). The only reason to call Obama “Hussein” is obviously to connect him to Sadam, don’t play dumb, and if you aren’t playing then I apologize. </p>

<p>The racist part of it was not the opinion itself, but the fact that the only reason she said it was to trivialize Obama’s presidency. </p>

<p>And i think its great that clinton supporters are enthusiastic, but even they know they are lying when they say he’s not hard-working, smart, or capable. And they are ESPECIALLY lying when they call him an empty suit. 95% of Obama and Clinton’s plans are identical. And 99% of what they will likely get done is identical. So if Obama is an empty suit, does that make HRC…a 5% full suit? Is that really that much better?</p>

<p>Bottom line, if the race were to end now and we were left with only one of the candidates, by November 99% of the democratic party would vote for whoever the nominee, because they are incredibly similar, and will serve your interests much better than the republicans. </p>

<p>All this talk about “Either so-and-so, or McCain!”, its bluffing. And if anybody really is serious they are obviously to ignorant to deserve to vote because they would rather shoot themselves in the foot then only get 95% of what they want.</p>

<p>Bedhead; I agree that there are those who use the middle name factor to push fear. But Obama himself has addressed himself on television by using his middle name. Some of his supporters have even mentioned that having a middle name of Hussein may even make it easier to deal with countries and politics in countries that have Arabic names. (For those who don’t know, Hussein is an Arabic name, NOT a Muslim name. Muslim is a religion. There are plenty of Arab Christians, Jews, etc… with the name Hussein).</p>

<p>The problem is the politically correct. I bet a box of donuts if Alan Keyes was still running as a Republican in the primary and someone said he wouldn’t have as much success with getting the vote had he not been black, there wouldn’t be half the criticism and outrage that Obama is getting.</p>

<p>Why not take this 1 step further and say; Obama wouldn’t have nearly as many people trying to defend him and cry foul on the other side, if it wasn’t for him being a Democrat. Or; people probably wouldn’t be talking so much about Obama’s race or middle name if he had anything else about his resume or qualifications to talk about. We can play this game all day.</p>

<p>The truth is; the Clintons; both Bill for president and Hillary running for the Senate, have traditionally held the black vote. New York, Arkansas, and Nationally. If Hillary was running right now against Edwards or the others, she would have those votes. She still maintains most of the hispanic vote as well as the woman vote. If Obama being a black man has most definitely taken many of the votes away from Hillary. So why is it racist to say that Obama wouldn’t be in the political position for the Democratic presidential nominee had he not been black? Why is that racist? It isn’t, people just need to defend because they feel vulnerable. At least Obama himself said he didn’t feel it was a racist comment. Good for him on that. I still wouldn’t vote for him, but at least he took the high ground over his supporters and is trying to set an example.</p>

<p>^^^^…and if Richardson were running, he would most likely have the lion’s share of the Hispanic vote, but he’s not running, is he?</p>

<p>The racist part, since you asked, is the implication that Obama’s black support is a knee-jerk positive support of race in the candidacy, not qualification in the candidacy. Let’s put it this way: I do not fault women who may not have previously felt impassioned about the race, to be providing now impassioned support of a different level than they might have provided had HRC not announced. I would hope, naturally, that it’s not “mainly” or “only” for that reason, but I can understand the impulse.</p>

<p>And I can understand blacks feeling similarly enjoined & connected to the whole process. Let me remind everybody that Jesse Jackson, when he announced many years ago, did not enjoy a similar level of enthusiasm unilaterally.</p>

<p>Neither blacks nor women vote monolithically, and I’m always disappointed when voters state that they are voting “because of” a category, or that people in that category “should” or “must” vote a certain way (or be labeled as anti-feminist, disloyal to blacks, etc.), but this year people in “categories” also have great choices.</p>

<p>She is right.</p>

<p>A white male as charismatic and with his pedigree would simply not be noteworthy. Going to two Ivies and being Harvard Law Review editor and a junior senator does not put one in the position to be a President of the United States. JFK, the closest comparison, had vastly more experience when he was running for President.</p>

<p>That is where the shrewdness of Obama camp comes in play. Jesse ran as a black candidate with his speeches and actions. Obama ran the the campaign as white. He did not have to say I am black and blacks have been wronged for generations and I will try to remedy it. He just had to look black, but appeal to whites. He essentially lifted his campaign from Edwards, but is winning because of his superior oratory and cornering the 90%+ of the base vote.</p>

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<p>What presidency is that?</p>

<p>I believe in everything Christcorp is saying. If you get on Obama and say he wouldn’t be where he was because of his race (which is true) you’re a racist. It’s part of the “double standard” that has existed in this country for some time.</p>

<p>"Obama ran the the campaign as white. He did not have to say I am black and blacks have been wronged for generations and I will try to remedy it. He just had to look black, but appeal to whites. "</p>

<p>^^But Simba, Obama is HALF WHITE… what do we expect him to do, flip-flop between his blackness and his whiteness depending on the day of the week or the state of the day? </p>

<p>He has spent a lifetime negotiating the landscape as a black AND white man. He appeals to both blacks and whites. And for some he’s not black enough, for others he’s so black that you “can’t” criticize him without sounding racist. </p>

<p>Sheesh. Ferraro’s comment was out of line and cheap. Obama is a once in a lifetime candidate, as EK said, and it wouldn’t matter if he was white or a woman or Asian or whatever… he is special and people have noticed and responded. </p>

<p>And the point about Hillary riding Bill’s coattails to her own position is less about her being a woman than about her being married to the right person.</p>

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<p>You can’t deny that if he wasn’t black he would be getting over 90% of the black vote against Clinton. This would certainly change the race if Clinton was getting the majority of the vote…</p>

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That is factually incorrect. Democrat blacks are voting for Obama nine times out of ten. In the land politics that’s about as close to monolithic as you can get.</p>

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How is Obama a once in a lifetime candidate?</p>

<p>^^ just because you can talk well doesn’t make you a “once in a lifetime” candidate.</p>

<p>“That is factually incorrect. Democrat blacks are voting for Obama nine times out of ten. In the land politics that’s about as close to monolithic as you can get.”</p>

<p>You still don’t get it. You didn’t read the rest of the post. They happen to vote more in concert this particular election AS OPPOSED TO OTHER ELECTIONS, including presidential, in which blacks have run. Your point would only be valid if different categories than blacks were overwhelmingly NOT supporting Obama.</p>

<p>Historically, blacks do not vote monolithically, nor do women. However, historically, blacks have voted overwhelmingly DEMOCRATIC, when they do vote. Nevertheless, the voting <em>rate</em> for blacks has been significantly outpacing many previous political races in which blacks have run – many voters saying they haven’t voted in 20+ years, etc. That’s excitement, sir, not race.</p>

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Umm, because Obama actually has a chance, obviously. Jesse Jackson/Sharpton never had a chance.</p>

<p>Now, if Colin Powell ran on a Republican ticket against a white male Democrat I’d be very interested to see how things turned out.</p>

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Blacks have voted monolithically since the new deal. As do Jews. Women do not vote monolithically.</p>

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IE: Monolithically.</p>

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Yeah, the excitement of getting a black president. If I was black I’d do the same thing. The next 10-20 years are the most likely time period for a black president to be elected, after that - it will not happen. The Hispanic vote will be far too strong at that point.</p>

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<p>Excitement for the first black candidate who has a real shot of winning. If Obama wasn’t black he wouldn’t winning over 90% of black voters, can you name another time blacks voted for a candidate in a primary with over 90%?</p>

<p>He’s a once in a lifetime candidate for the sum of his biography, geography, abilities, timing… </p>

<p>Biography: white and black, single mom and raised by grandparents, educated at the best colleges the world has to offer; with a grandmother living in a virtual hut in Africa.</p>

<p>Geography: lived on the edges of our country (Hawaii and New York) as well as the heartland (Chicago) and internationally</p>

<p>Abilities: to negotiate between extremes without taking too much of the credit; to help people see the truth that we have more in common than we have different; to run a brilliant campaign that brings a true community-organizer’s spirit to a populace starving to believe they matter and still have a say (or should care).</p>

<p>Timing: marrying community organizing to netroots technology while smashing the politics of old and throwing the Baby Boomer elders off balance; and putting to rest the tired, tired 60s culture wars; and offering an antidote to a war-mongering, arrogant President who won’t listen to anyone or admit a mistake.</p>

<p>And he’s a pretty cool cucumber. The more rattled the Clintons get, the more calm he seems to become. What a breath of fresh air. </p>

<p>Oh, yeah, and he can give a good speech. The best I’ve ever heard in my lifetime.</p>

<p>The odd thing is that until white people began to vote in very large numbers for Obama (in Iowa and New Hampshire), the polls indicate that African-Americans overwhelmingly supported Clinton. That began to change in South Carolina, but not significantly until Hillary’s husband the mass killer of children stuck his foot in in his mouth. </p>

<p>I do think Obama’s being Black has been an influence on the campaign - overwhelmingly negative - until the Clintons made an issue of it.</p>

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<p>Look, I don’t think what GF said ipso facto was particularly racist. But the way she said it, as you said was awful – and it’s particularly damning to learn that she said the same thing about Jesse Jackson because it starts to reek of her denying any legitimacy to black candidates systematically. </p>

<p>To make a perhaps telling comparison, a lot of people felt that there was absolutely no way George W. Bush would have had the advantages in running for office that he did without the Bush name.</p>

<p>The difference is this: Obama, partly because he is black, has been recognized for what he is – charismatic, brilliant, well-spoken, and capable --and essentially fast-tracked in life because of it. Our society does want black folks to succeed especially when they are succeeding because of innate talent (and in that sense there is a lot of “counter-racism” that exists). And he has that – innate talent. His being black has arguably been a necessary but insufficient condition to his success at the explosive level he’s enjoyed, or at least a condition that rendered it much more likely. His talent provided the sufficiency. If he were a white man, no one would doubt his talent though he might not have the same electoral appeal.</p>

<p>Bush, on the other hand, was fast-tracked along the lines of a completely different presumption; he was in fact promoted beyond his abilities. He went to Yale as a legacy and got into Harvard through connections (I am guessing at Harvard, but Yale’s a known fact). He didn’t really distinguish himself in anything he did prior to being governor and was essentially groomed as an heir apparent. We all know how this story ends; he’s been really deficient, and most people agree with that. His being a Bush was a sine qua non to his being propelled as he has been, and his talents have not proven up to image that was projected or the expectations set by his name. All he had to do was show up and act a part in order to get elected – and in fact he failed to do even that for many years. Even his brother didn’t have quite his advantages; I don’t know the story of how Jeb Bush didn’t make it to Yale, but given the apparent relative intelligence of the two and their ages I would wager highly that involved the end of pure legacy admits before younger brother Jeb came along. If they were a normal family today, Jeb would have been in Yale and George would have been at UT.</p>

<p>Obama, on the other other hand, was seen as having all the right stuff to be Harvard Law Review, Senator, etc. He may had his trajectory enhanced by being black, but he got into Harvard Law and made Law Review because he merited it.</p>

<p>These distinctions may simply be too subtle for our impoverished political discourse. And GF didn’t help matters in that she really seemed to be dismissing his candidacy as being kind of illegitimate for this very reason. One didn’t see her noting that HRC was only in her position 'cause of her last name.</p>

<p>I do agree broadly with Mini that being black is a tangible obstacle for him as well. I don’t think that’s a contradictory statement: he may be able to inspire young people because of his personality, his image, and because his candidacy would symbolize a great turn in this country’s history. However, in the general election, it might not be as much a boon. We’ll see, perhaps.</p>

<p>“The more rattled the Clintons get, the more calm he seems to become.”</p>

<p>It seems to be other way around. Nervous anxiety that he has not won any ‘large’ state.</p>

<p>I agree bedhead. Bush got to where he was largely because of connections. The thing is nobody disputes this…I think it’s funny to argue that Obama, if he was white, would be getting 90% of the black vote. If we can agree that he wouldn’t be getting this then we can agree that this race would be very different.</p>

<p>momof2inca, you’re hopeless. You think he’s Jesus. I think he’s a normal guy.</p>