@skieurope The supposed “usefulness” of Spanish does not occur in a vacuum. The question is not if it is the “most useful” in absolute terms — which it obviously is — but how many individuals speak it, how many are taking it, and what the added value of studying Spanish is vis a vis other languages in that opportunity cost context. This is simply a matter of supply and demand: to the extent Spanish is being oversupplied, which it most certainly now is, it is not comparatively useful. I’ll find the study for you if I must, but I thought links are not allowed and it doesn’t take much of a thought experiment to understand this logic.
In terms of whether one should be fluent in one Romance language before even beginning another - especially when we are talking about high school - that is simply not true. I will concede, though, that it is far better to be advanced in one first.
Spanish cinema? Compared to Italian, French, or German? Haven’t heard that one before, but to each his own. I won’t touch the literature issue either: I would be tilting at windmills.
@gardenstategal Latin America is perhaps the only place where business will not be conducted in English; it is conducted in Spanish and Portuguese. You apparently were not in Brazil, but it is expected that Spanish speakers from other countries speak Portuguese there, and that the Brazilians, in turn, speak Spanish in other countries. We are talking about 200 million people after all; Brazil is the economic powerhouse of the continent.
@doschicos The overwhelming majority of boarding schools I have seen offer Chinese, Spanish, French, and Latin/Greek. That’s it. Yes, there are other options if you know where to look, especially at acronym schools, but they are few and far between.
Mainly at the better endowed schools, yes. If it is important to a family/student they can search out schools with broader offerings. It seems like most families are content with the options offered. Like I mentioned, for families wanting more learning options for their children look into the State Dept programs. They are free, although competitive in terms of admission.
Actually, @pincite, I was also in Brazil, usually only about once a quarter, but was accommodated as an English and Spanish speaker. And I was grateful for that!
But my circumstances gave rise to a greater need for Spanish. I loved Brazil and would have been all in for learning Portuguese if I’d had to the chance to visit more often.
By the way, having experienced the 1980s, I doubt that Japanese and Russian were examples of “if you build it, they will come.” Folks talked as if Japan (pre-endless recession) would take over the world economically, and Russia was the formidable, mysterious “other” that people thought they needed to know more about. I dated a few people taking those languages on grounds they were “important” — and they were hardly alone. Learning these languages (or at least the idea of doing so) was all the rage at the time, so I would be very surprised if boarding schools’ initial adoption of these languages was “top down”; it was probably in response to this same parental-societal groundswell. Of course this all turned out to be short lived, and now we look back on it as a fad…
You’re probably right. The only one here pushing the “if you build it, they will come” idea is you, @Pincite. But obviously, for the schools that offer Japanese or Russian (same for Arabic I would say), there seems to be enough interest to sustain some classes otherwise they would drop it.
I did not say that. I specifically said that proficiency in Spanish (not French, Italian, Catalan, Romanian, or any other Romance language) is very beneficial for those learning Portuguese.
I was referring to cinema of the Spanish-speaking world. Others are also quite good. For the size of its population, I believe Italian cinema is exceptional. Scandinavian cinema is also excellent, but I’m hardly advocating adding Swedish to the BS curriculum; I’m simply pointing out that there is more to language-learning than verb conjugation. But I’m not going to continue to debate since it’s a ToS violation.
While I have everyone’s attention, so to speak, how realistic is it for a student to take 2 language classes at some point in boarding school after freshman year (for either 1 year or 2). Is this common? An “extra” course? Enough flexibility in electives after freshman year?
Trying to figure out how meaningful the existence of German or Arabic would be for the kid.
In the “German school scenario,” he would need to take 3 years of French (4 if he wants to) and 1 year of German (2 would be better). Let’s call it 5 years of language total.
In the “Arabic school scenario,” he would be starting Arabic from scratch: 4 years of Arabic would be essential. But then he would still need 2 years of French. Let’s call it 6 years of language total.
In the “forget it, boarding schools don’t have great language offerings but all have French scenario,” he would basically need 3 years of French. Rather than waste a 4th year taking a “useless” course like Spanish 1 (kidding - mostly), he could do then do other things.
He likes to draw and is very good at it, so might become kind of a fine arts type.
He plays an instrument and is no virtuoso or anything, but not bad so might be in an orchestra or ensemble.
Let’s assume he wants to pursue 1 of the 2 art/music possibilities. Is the Arabic scenario out? The German?
It can be hard to squeeze in extra courses at BS. Arts will depend on how the program is structured; for instance, at Mercersburg, students can’t participate in the major extracurricular music groups unless they are also enrolled in the corresponding music classes.
On the original topic: Mercersburg has an excellent German teacher and a longstanding exchange relationship with a German gymnasium. Extraordinary French teacher, too, btw, can’t comment on others.
College may allow for more language exploration. My daughter is in a program with a ton of restrictive requirements, but because of her interest, she has continued French (currently studying in Paris), has started learning Spanish (and is continuing her Spanish study this semester - in French), and has picked up bits of other languages using Duolingo and her friends. She goes to a school where she is allowed to take too many classes lol. However, my son goes to a college that pretty strictly limits students to four classes per semester, and he has only been able to take one German course and probably won’t take any more.
At Hotchkiss they have a humanities program where all the social sciences are integrated, and the student picks an art to focus on. This curriculum is for the 1st 2 years. What it means is that they will be studying the Renaissance in history, reading Renaissance literature in English, studying Renaissance philosophers in philosophy, and playing Renaissance music, if their chosen art is music. (They can choose to focus on theater, or fine arts or photography as the other art concentrations). Add in a math, a science and a foreign language, and you are full up.
There is a little more flexibility in the upper two years, but not much. Hotchkiss is a demanding school, and a kid can only do so much. Any extra bandwidth the student has might be spent on acting in a play, singing in a chorus, competing in debate etc vs taking an extra class.
Plus, colleges want to see 4 years of English/history/science/math/language so there isn’t much wiggle room.
If languages end up being a top priority, besides the nsli-y programs several of us have recommended (my oldest did this, studying Farsi in Tajikistan), your son could always do intensive immersion courses in the summer (Middlebury, eg). Finally I believe there are German exchange programs (maybe post high school) run by the German government.
Boarding schools also can have extensive study abroad programs, including School Year Abroad which can lead to fluency.
So there are a few ways to approach the issue of foreign language instruction and boarding school.
@cinammon1212 Thanks. The integrated humanities program sounds very interesting. German and French would just be a means to maintain or slightly improve for my son; he speaks both, having attended public schools abroad in those countries. Sounds like his foreign language plate would be pretty full with 1-2 years of German and 2-3 of French (what he would need, respectively, to maintain near fluency or be totally fluent).
The next question is if my son’s modest German needs justifies targeting boarding schools with German. Related to this question would be that of starting a new language at a school not offering German. The leading candidate here would be Arabic, but what
I am hearing is that, while 5 years total of a language might work in boarding school, 6 is not going to fly. (With Arabic, it would need to be 4 years and another 2 for French).
Of course, summer programs can enter the mix. The bottom line is — as several comments on this thread have stated — fluency ain’t easy. But it is relatively easy to maintain if you have it, especially if you have obtained it as a kid (when it is far easier to obtain, of course).
So a bit of juggling is in order to make sure he doesn’t lose what he has while looking into other opportunities, new languages and otherwise, for personal and academic growth…
@Pincite , he might be able to brush up/improve German with summer classes and with a high level of proficiency, even take the AP exam in it withoutdoingit during the school year. And that would set him up to do something else during the year. I suggest that with a little caution – many BS kids value the time off from academics over the summer. But it’s an option.
But obviously, for the schools that offer Japanese or Russian (same for Arabic I would say), there seems to be enough interest to sustain some classes otherwise they would drop it.