I am a physician who has been in academic medicine for nearly 20 years. The key to getting into a good medical school is to perform well (grades, MCATs) and participate in activities that demonstrate an interest in medicine (research, public health, clinical care). Getting into the residency program of your choice (field and program) is a bit more complicated (the relative lack of residency program slots with more medical schools graduates and no increase in money to find residency positions is one part of this). Going to a medical school that has a proven tack record of placing their graduates into a wide range of top programs is a good thing to look at.
D went to Northwestern for her undergrad and had a science GPA around 3.5. She ended up in a third-tier MD school, and her pre-med classmates who got placed got into med schools with rankings all over the spectrum. I wasn’t impressed by NU - “take a gap year and do some research” was their mantra. I didn’t see any benefits she got by going there versus a state school.
I know students who did 80. Big difference in experience there.
You’re right. But for someone who never wanted to go into OB/gyn, what difference does it make.
What I described is someone who wanted to be a good doctor and didn’t try to do the minimum necessary.
As an AOA member I think my S tried very,very hard from day one of med school and has continued to try to be a good doctor every day…
Things that pre-meds can look at/evaluate when looking at medical schools and clerkships are
-proportion/flexibility of elective time and required blocks too (e.g. can you defer any 3rd year clerkships to 4th year to allow you to get experience in some specialties during 3rd year so you have more time to decide on which specialty to apply or doing a scholarly year, etc?)
-number/distance of clinical sites (e.g. do you do everything at your academic medical center or are they sending you to different cities/hospital settings all over the state - how much of it is determined by you vs the school)
-any atypical features to the MS3/MS4 curriculum (for example my school requires everyone spend 1 month on the same, specific, inpatient, medical sub-specialty service because of how good one of our hospitals is at it - regardless of whether you are interested in that sub-specialty let alone whether you are even interested in internal medicine)
I think all of the above are just personal preference things (i.e. there’s no one method that’s clearly better) but that doesn’t mean they don’t have any impact on a person’s medical education.
I’m sure they did their best at whatever they were doing.
What I gave was an example of the range of experiences you might get in medical school. Name brand prestige gets you about bupkiss in Medicine.
Side note…S is actually very glad to be assigned to this private hospital rather than the university med center because of the protocal that’s used there. When MS3’s have a question, they have to start at the bottom (ask a resident, then “go up the ladder”), but at the private hospital, they can just ask the Attending.
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Jugulator20 wrote:
My S got to “deliver” 3-4 (I don’t remember exact number now) babies in his OB/gyn clerkship.
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BTW…my son got to “deliver” at least 80 babies during his OB/gyn clerkship. While he has no interest in becoming an OB/Gyn, he actually enjoyed that part.
I think because he’s been assigned to do his MS3 at a private hospital, rather than the univ med center, he is getting a lot more hands on experience. At least that’s what he believes.
"How are ALL US medical schools excellent?
I have seen you post that several times and do not understand."
Because that’s the truth. There is a standard curriculum and it varies little by school. Where you do your residency is more of the differentiator.
Blue Cross doesn’t give the Harvard MD a penny more in reimbursement than the State U MD. Medicine is just a very flat field, prestige-wise. If you want to go into academic medicine that’s different but if your goal is to be a doctor in practice treating patients, it simply doesn’t make much difference within the world of US medical schools.
Also keep in mind that the hospitals that a given med school affiliates with for clerkships can change over the years, esp with healthcare corporation purchases and mergers.
Well, there is always “away” clerkships.
“My S got to “deliver” 3-4 (I don’t remember exact number now) babies in his OB/gyn clerkship. (Also let’s not exaggerate S’s role, he was mainly the catcher who after dad cut the cord S carried newborn to table for nurses to attend to.) But what if those 4 babies turned out to be C sections. Then S may have got to scrub in and watch 4 C sections, but he would have “delivered” 0 babies during his OB/gyn clerkship. What if it had been 2 deliveries, 2 C sections. You just can’t make generalizations about unique experiences.”
The specific personalities of the attendants make a big difference too. One rotation might be with an attending who gives students a lot of independence. One might be with an attending who doesn’t. As with anything, experiences will differ.
“I think because he’s been assigned to do his MS3 at a private hospital, rather than the univ med center, he is getting a lot more hands on experience. At least that’s what he believes.”
I fully agree. As has been indicated in posts 39, 47 above, the opportunities that MS3’s have are directly related to numerous factors such as where they’ve been assigned often randomly (eg busy county hospital like in LA v smaller regional/rural facility), who are the attendings, fellows etc, what comes in the door patient wise when the MS3 is present, time of year, etc. I think med students try to take advantage of every clinical opportunity that they are presented with but if the opportunities are not there….
Well, there are always “away” clerkships.”
I thought elective away clerkships were done more for MS4s say to build relationships at a potential residency program, further cement MS4 post med school career decision, not so much to fill someone’s perceived deficiencies in MS3 clerkships.
That’s been my experience with my classmates/friends. Other than direct benefits to residency apps, the only other reasons I’ve heard of friends doing aways are:
- international aways for the sake of an excuse to travel to other location (these are always done after submitting the rank list so usually the students don’t work as hard as they are used to and thus have plenty of time to enjoy their foreign locale)
- long distance relationships. Had a friend whose boyfriend was planning on relocating to her coast after law school so she only did aways in his city and there was really no reason on her end for spending time in those hospitals other than being able to live in his city for a few weeks.
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Well, there is always “away” clerkships.
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Aren’t those for MS4’s? My son will be applying for some in Calif because my sibs are there and he can invade their guest bedrooms. 
They may be more common in the 4th year, but I’m not aware that they are limited to that.
I’m sure students have various motivations to their away electives, but the students I knew best used them to maximize their clinical experience.
“Away” rotations are used to get a sure residency interview invite. It is a way to increase the number of II for those applying to very selective residencies. The clinical exposure is very minimal during Med. School as med. students are not allowed to do much. It is more when they are AI. One of D’s classmates had 5 away rotations and she got an II from each. Cannot comment more than that, D. did not apply to a single away rotation.
That’s why you want to pick those electives carefully. If you go to the right places, you’re gonna do stuff.
^Well, some may have this reason, but most use away rotations to increase the number of II and to have II from the desired residency places. If you really truly want to be a doc. while in med. school, then pursue AI position and/or go abroad with the medical team to some very poor region of the world. My D. did both and she was happy with both experiences. However, be prepared that in some specialties, you will not be allowed to do anything. It is just the way it is. The real clinical exposure is during residency and it starts right away. I agree that it may be different at another school, but there are certain liabilities that prevent medical students to be performing as MDs.