God and Nihilism at College

Parent Cafe
101

<p>

That quote isn’t from the Dartmouth Review, nor is it from anything that anyone in this thread has written. It’s an African proverb that prefaced a famous novel 50 years ago. IMO, it sums up what the DR article–and to a large extent, FountainSiren–were saying.</p>

<p>The article struck me as one written by a student who had recently read Buckley’s early books God and Man at Yale and Nearer my God to Thee, and, demonstrating admirable discipline, had sat down and prepared an essay examining Buckley’s observations and whether or not they pointed out any parallels in his/her own life at Dartmouth 50 years later. This, when said student could have been out playing frisbee or beer pong, like so many others. I found it inspirational.</p>

<p>Inspirational not because it equates atheism with nihilism–it doesn’t–or because it advocates for a return to mandatory church attendance on Sunday–it doesn’t do that either. Rather, it was inspirational that a kid (sorry, young person) of 20 or so years felt like writing on such a topic at all, pointing out that college atmosphere has gone from one extreme to the other. From mandatory church attendance to a climate that is at <em>best</em> only tolerant–as opposed to nurturing–of any sort of traditional spiritual activities.</p>

<p>The author didn’t accuse Dartmouth of affirmatively being anti-religious–“At the same time, though, anyone who claims that Dartmouth is an affirmatively anti-Christian (or, for that matter, anti-religious) institution is living in an equally delusional world”–nor did s/he claim that religion was a panacea for all that ails campus life: “That’s not to whitewash the past and ignore the fact that young adults of college age have been behaving badly for time immemorial, even when attending daily services.”</p>

<p>What balance. What perception. The author does believe that religion is passively discouraged by omission, though, and provides an interesting example:

</p>

<p>Well. I have yet to find anything objectionable, or threatening to someone non-religious. Perhaps it will appear in the author’s closing sentence?

Nope, guess not.</p>

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<p>Mini,</p>

<p>So what is your point? That we need to swing too far the other way for there to be justice and compensation?</p>

<p>As I said above:</p>

<p>“I do not long for the days of a denominational Sunday morning mass at college. But we are no where near that situation now, are we.”</p>

<p>I believe things do change, but I do not “believe change is good” unless it is a “good” change.</p>

<p>Perhaps such radical changes are a little more playful to those who will not be attending college in this decade and beyond, but who rather resent their own college experience and compulsory chapel attendance.</p>

<p>…the baby leaves with the bathwater.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/01/education/01bible.html?pagewanted=2&th&emc=th[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/01/education/01bible.html?pagewanted=2&th&emc=th&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I will not be moving to Odessa, Texas.</p>

104

<p>You’re cluttering the thread with a non-germane article dealing with:

  1. Public school
  2. High school
  3. Elective course.</p>

<p>The OP dealt with:

  1. Private school
  2. College
  3. Ethos</p>
105

<p>FS, how do you reconcile your view that athiesm leads to nihilism or hedonism with the fact that communism is rooted in athiesm? Whether you agree with communism or not, I don’t think that it could possibly be characterized as either nihilistic or hedonistic – it is all about placing the good of society over the interests of the individual, while at the same time providing for the needs of the individuals: “from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs”.</p>

106

<p>"Mini,</p>

<p>So what is your point? That we need to swing too far the other way for there to be justice and compensation?"</p>

<p>I don’t grant your metaphor, or that of the writer. Things didn’t “swing” the other way. We just got rid of a system that wallowed in hypocrisy, produced cynicism toward religion, and resulted in nihilism - with college theologians and ministers preaching that “God is Dead”, supported a system that denied access to many because of their race, creed, or color (AND, if my Williams experience is worth noting, produced next to nothing in the way of “good works”.)</p>

<p>The good ol’ days were awfully good to the good ol’ boys, though.</p>

107

<p>(I should add, by the way, that fundamentalists and evangelicals would have been totally personna non grata - even in 1967, I can’t remember meeting a single one; there were no support groups, Intervarsity or Baptist fellowships, “praise” meetings, or even Gospel singing. The admissions office did a pretty good job…)</p>

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<p>I didn’t attend college so I can’t compare then to now- but I know Reed for example which is predominately attended by the “unchurched” has tradition coming out of the Doyle Owls tufted ears.
From the study of ancient texts and art to choral pieces in Latin- much of college life is recognizeable to alums of 30 or even 50 years ago
( Just ask Dr. Demento)</p>

109

<p>“FS, how do you reconcile your view that athiesm leads to nihilism or hedonism”</p>

<p>Calmom,
if you read my previous posts, I would have no need to respond to this claim once more. As I said to SBmom and EK4, atheism does not lead to nihilism or hedonism—but it seems that a necessary condition of nihilism, and to a lesser extent, hedonism, would be an atheistic belief. </p>

<p>“Whether you agree with communism or not, I don’t think that it could possibly be characterized as either nihilistic or hedonistic” </p>

<p>Based on what I said above, you cannot conclude that I view communism as “either nihilistic or hedonistic.” </p>

<p>Although, not that it matters for purposes of this thread, I can hardly think of a better way to enforce totalitarianism than to deprive the people of their traditional/religious beliefs…that is to say the only “beliefs” that stood in the place of the new regime of communism and atheism—worked for Mao too.</p>

110

<p>“with college theologians and ministers preaching that "God is Dead"”</p>

<p>Mini,</p>

<p>I may be wrong, but I believe Nietzsche was the one who first claimed that “the sky is falling” (or “God is dead” or some such nonsensical phrase—though it may have been Chicken-Little) as far back as the late 1800s—before what you and others on the thread got all weak in the knees over.</p>

111

<p>You ARE wrong. Nietzche coined the phrase, putting it into the mouth of another character:</p>

<p>"Have you heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place, and cried incessantly, “I seek God! I seek God!” As many of those who do not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter… </p>

<p>Whither is God," he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. All of us are murderers… God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him… </p>

<p>Friedrich Nietzsche. The Gay Science (1882), section 126"</p>

<p>But it was college theologians who first preached it as part of their “Christianity” - in collegiate churches - in the late 1950s. They wallowed in hypocrisy, still drew their checks from the college, and created a religious cynicism unparalleled in recent times. Ah, those were the good ol’ days. </p>

<p>No Sufis need apply, either.</p>

<p>While students from North Carolina A&T were sitting in at lunch counters, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference sponsoring freedom rides, Martin Luther King revitalizing an activist Christianity that had become moribund, students at Williams and Dartmouth and Emory were sitting around taking Jesus’ pulse, and not finding any. The then chaplain at Williams, one William Sloane Coffin, resigned in disgust - the best that could be said of his successor (whom I knew personally) was that he had a very nice Airedale (though he later had a religious conversion and turned into a very good environmentalist, but that was after my time, in the period of “militant secularism”). The good 'ol days…</p>

112

<p>“Gott ist todt! Gott bleibt todt! Und wir haben ihn getödtet!”</p>

<p>–Me: “I may be wrong, but I believe Nietzsche was the one who first claimed … “God is dead””</p>

<p>–Mini: “You ARE wrong. NIETZCHE coined the phrase” </p>

<p>I don’t think you are familiar with the “Law of non-contradiction”.
If Nietzsche coined the phrase, as you say,</p>

<p>–“NIETZCHE coined the phrase” </p>

<p>and I am wrong about him coining the phrase, as you claim: </p>

<p>–“You ARE wrong”</p>

<p>then he did not coin the phrase…according to your dizzying logic, at least. </p>

<p>And, unless I AM “wrong” again (as you claim), you wrote:</p>

<p>–“Nietzsche coined the phrase.”</p>

<p>I said:
“I believe Nietzsche was the one who first claimed … “God is dead””</p>

<p>Is this a trick?</p>

<p>That is, if I am wrong (“and I am never wrong”–Humperdink:“The Princess Bride”): you are wrong (right?)
If you are right: I am right. (wrong?)
You see, under the circumstances, you cannot be right if I am wrong, and wrong if I am right… wooh! I can barely stand up.</p>

<p>“Nietzche coined the phrase, putting it into the mouth of another character:”</p>

<p>If you ask me. . . you’re the real character :slight_smile: </p>

<p>PS. How’s that whole George Fox + “sin” thingy comin’ along?</p>

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<p>speaking of King- the only time that I am aware of that Martin Luther King spoke in Seattle was at Garfield HIgh school where my daughter currently attends. There were several churches at the time that were large enough to attract the size of crowds that King was likely to draw- but they all declined to host King.
This was in the 1960s and a church was obviously the appropriate place for a minister to speak- but King was apparently deemed “too controversial”</p>

114

<p>M.L. King was a great “man of God” (the civil rights movement was dominated by them) as he would say of other great saints, and it is entirely common for saints and men of God to be treated this way…even, and often especially, by their own.</p>

115

<p>FountainSiren, what are going to major in at Dartmouth?</p>

116

<p>dstark,
I plan on majoring in Philosophy (modified with ethics)
and Pre-med. Ultimately, I’d like to get into medical ethics in grad school.</p>

117

<p>Medical ethics should be a field in huge demand in the future.</p>

118

<p>by that do you mean genetic counseling or do you mean attorneys that will be advising hospitals and research facilities?</p>

119

<p>EK4—</p>

<p>I’ve spent the last three years working with the mentally and physically disabled—it’s something that’s always been at the center of my moral and social thinking. In addition, I’ve always wanted to be a doctor. Moreover, there are some very serious implications with the way in which those with disabilities will be treated and are treated based on new ethical appraisals of the value of human life as such. </p>

<p>I’m concerned with the way the disabled will be viewed both medically and in society at large, mainly because of an ethical-political movement spearheaded by Peter Singer at Princeton U. who believes that the disabled (along with babies, the unborn and the elderly) are inherently valued as inferior in society when weighed against the interests of a “valued” person. </p>

<p>This ideology and ethical “theory of interests” has been picked up on by some well-meaning but, in my mind, deluded people in the animal rights movement represented by political action groups like PETA, Animal Liberation Front et al., and other less fringe thinkers drawn to an ethic that is utilitarian to the extreme (found in the majority at most Philosophy depts.) and many who for their own reasons choose a lifestyle devoid of animal products (many for very compassionate reasons, I applaud there principles even when I don’t share them). </p>

<p>Though I’m not exactly sure what I will do career-wise (I simply hoping for a wonderful and enriching undergrad education—that’s why I chose DARTMOUTH COLLEGE), I would love to combine a career that includes working with/in an ethical-think tank or foundation aimed at preserving and extending the rights of the disabled and severely disabled, with a career as a doctor actually working with those who need such treatment as is available to them.</p>

120

<p>FountainSiren, that is one meaningful career. Good lluck.</p>