?Good? life style?

<p>Mathmom- we are in the same boat. Paying our EFC even with our good income is unrealistic. We are right at the edge. </p>

<p>While colleges look hollistically at an applicant for admission ,they choose not to apply the same approach to fin aid. How many kids you have put through college should count for something–not being able to save etc. But yet they will give a family who has two kids in college at the same time a break. What the parents do for a living and how long they will be able to do that for is never a consideration. While they will not take away from a family who has kids in private schools or ask a family whose home has not appreciated in value to make up the lost equity by moving, they will screw a family whose kids have been in good public schools and whose homes have appreciated to use home equity which in my case, means to move. </p>

<p>I see many families like myself lamenting the same thing.</p>

<p>Even though my family is among those who wouldn’t qualify for much financial aid, I still don’t feel screwed by the system. I feel fortunate that the U.S. literally has thousands of colleges, and virtually any person who wants to go to college can find some college to go to, and that they can afford.</p>

<p>Sure, my kids can’t afford to go to many colleges, but thanks to living in the U.S., there are many colleges that they could afford to go to. As I write this, S’s first choice college is one that we won’t be able to afford unless he gets generous merit and financial aid. Still, I don’t feel that we’re being victimized. If he can’t go to his first choice college, there still are plenty of others that we could afford and where he’d get a suitable education.</p>

<p>Dstark–I don’t get your fairness insistence. </p>

<p>Our value systems are obviously too different to even try to discuss this.</p>

<p>I have friends who have a high EFC because of their income. Wisely they have saved money for their 2 children and, combined with merit money, will be able to handle college expenses without borrowing much. Without these savings, they would have had to take out huge loans or seriously limit their kids choices. They still have some limits, because schools who offer no merit aid may be out of reach. But their kids will have some choices that don’t involve huge debt.</p>

<p>It is wrong for any college to use a home as an asset. People must live in their homes . The govt has got it right with the FAFSA. It is the schools who use the profile that screw you.</p>

<p>Dstark has pretty much stated it–“Judgments are made on who is going to pay and how much.”</p>

<p>I’m going to try one more time because people that are involved in financial aid know there are unfairness issues including the saving issue.</p>

<p>Two people make the same amount of money. It has been decided that owning a computer is beneficial to society.
They both want to buy a computer. It’s $100. One person spends all his money (he bought $100 shoes)and can’t afford it. The other saves his money and can afford it.
They both get the computer.</p>

<p>The saver used the $100 he saved to buy the computer.
The spender was given $100 because he didn’t have any savings and the computer is beneficial.</p>

<p>How do we end up with 2 people who made the exact same income?</p>

<p>The saver owns a $100 computer.
The spender owns a $100 computer and $100 of fancy shoes.</p>

<p>You don’t care about fancy shoes and think the spender was foolish.
The spender agrees with you and sells the fancy shoes on craigslist for $50.</p>

<p>So now how do we end up?
Saver owns a $100 computer.
Spender owns a $100 computer and has $50 more.</p>

<p>I’m not a parent and my parents get all defensive when I ask them about their financial information - “Who wants to know!? None of their business!” - and I’ve never so much as seen a FAFSA form, so I don’t have a full understanding of the process, but this thread has made me curious about one point.</p>

<p>I can kind of see the OP’s point…if family A and family B both have the same income, but family A lives modestly and saves as much as possible and family B lives more extravagantly and saves minimally, then I can see why family A might think that they are being “punished” for being responsible and saving, by being given a higher EFC. But on the other hand, weren’t some of those savings meant to pay for college in the first place? And what about family B, who doesn’t have any savings, who has to take out a loan to even meet the EFC, when they may already be in much more debt than family A…which family is being “punished” in this scenario, the one with piles of debt or the one that actually had to use its savings to pay for something? I would imagine a lot of family Bs would rather be in family A’s position, even if it means a higher EFC.</p>

<p>My parents got lucky with inheritances…I don’t know whether it raised the EFC or by how much, but if those people hadn’t died, I don’t think they would have had much to offer in the way of college savings, which would have either meant a different career choice or crippling loans for me. I hate to say that it’s a good thing some of my family members have died, but the alternatives make me nervous.</p>

<p>“You don’t care about fancy shoes and think the spender was foolish.
The spender agrees with you and sells the fancy shoes on craigslist for $50.”</p>

<p>Sounds like a brief for Paris Hilton (or Imelda Marcos) to me. (And, as Paris Hilton discovered, you have to spend money to make some! Ah, the joys of the simple life. ;)) (Note: Paris didn’t go to college, but it doesn’t seem to have hurt her career prospects any.)</p>

<p>The brief actually, is not to spend all your money in the hopes of saving, but to spend a heck of a lot less time and mental energy EARNING and more time actually living. (If you are being “punished”, it is for spending too much of your lives thinking about money.) Our strategy was to recareer, take a major cut in income, and then spend quite lavishly (for our income) in providing educational opportunities for our kids from the time they were two on the assumption that: a) there was nothing going on at Yale either now or the future that would be important for them than what was going on in our backyard; and b) if our kids turned out to be interesting, exciting, engaged, self-disciplined human beings, college would either take care of itself and we could rent them out to the college that wanted to fork over the big bucks, or they wouldn’t even need it.</p>

<p>So far so good. Every semester, when I pay the college bill, I feel like the luckiest guy on earth. ;)</p>

<p>I’m talking about the issue that was brought up by the OP. Mini and Northstarmom are changing the issue.</p>

<p>The issue I’m talking about is, “is it fair to savers vs spenders”, not how you deal.</p>

<p>No it isn’t fair to savers. Period.</p>

<p>Now you can talk about how to deal. ;)</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=293749&page=2[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=293749&page=2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The link in post #188.</p>

<p>Go to 75 (82 of 126).</p>

<p>It’s easier than it looks to get to the appropriate page.</p>

<p>From the link, the appropriate part…</p>

<p>Two families with identical income histories should, according to principles of horizontal equity, be asked for identical contributions (at least if they are choosing equally priced educational options). But taxing frugal families’ savings means that they will lose out on some financial aid.
There is, of course, no perfect answer to this dilemma. Financial aid professionals tend to focus on the fact that a family with $10,000 of college savings will pay a maximum of $560 more than a similar family with no savings. The family with the $10,000 will have a much easier time financing their expected contribution and will, in the long run, be better off than the family that depends on borrowing and suffers the effects of compounding interest.
But there is a clear perception among the public that savers are chasing a moving target. Every dollar they save in an attempt to be prepared for the daunting expected contributions they face increases the amount colleges will expect them to contribute. Economists also complain about the savings disincentive in the need analysis system. The combined effects of income taxes and need analysis on the marginal tax rates on income and savings may discourage significant amounts of saving. While the maximum annual assessment rate on assets held by parents of dependent students is 5.6 percent in FM and 5 percent in IM,
76
when the assessment rate on the income generated by the asset is combined with federal and state income taxes, only about a third
of the interest is likely to be available to devote to paying the EFC that would exist in the absence of savings. Moreover, the savings themselves are assessed every year. If 95 percent of the asset remains after the first year, and none of the asset is used to pay the expected contribution from income, 81 percent of the asset will remain after four years. If the savings are gradually depleted to pay for college, the amount available each year will be about 22 percent of the original amount saved, not 25 percent.
For students, the problem is even more serious because of the higher assessment rate on both income and assets. Student assets are assessed at 35 percent in FM and 25 percent in IM. A student who earns an extra $1,000 over the summer and saves it for academic year expenses may be expected to contribute an additional $500 out of income, plus an additional $350 out of savings, based on the FM formula.
Clearly, there is a trade-off between reducing the savings disincentive in the need analysis system and recognizing the reality that assets increase ability to pay. The best solution is probably assuring that allowances against assets are adequate, so that assets that have been saved in order to finance expected contributions and will likely be used up entirely when those contributions are paid, do not increase the EFC. This problem is discussed further in the section on Allowances Against Assets, beginning on page 83.</p>

<p>"I’m talking about the issue that was brought up by the OP. Mini and Northstarmom are changing the issue.</p>

<p>The issue was is it fair to savers vs spenders, not how you deal.</p>

<p>No it isn’t fair to savers. Period.</p>

<p>After that, then you can talk about how to deal."</p>

<p>Excuse me, but the title of the forum is “Good? Life style”. The OP’S opening line is: “Life style, what does it have to do with college application?”</p>

<p>And the OP’s concluding question is: "So, what is a “good” life style? </p>

<p>I think I was spot on-track.</p>

<p>Moral of the story: “Neither a spender nor a saver be.” ;)</p>

<p>Dstark–gaming the system (ie, being the spender) is open to everyone. Go for it.</p>

<p>I doubt there are actually many people who would consciously put themselves at risk financially in order to have a lower EFC.
The fear of the unknown has to come into play somewhere…</p>

<p>I did possibly the worst thing. I not only save for the kids’ education, I put it in a custodial account (there was no 529 plan when I started) so the asset counts higher. What I gained: peace of mind.</p>

<p>The downside, this year they change the rule on kiddie tax, and I manage to be $7 over. That means I should now be working on a more complex and expensive tax return, instead of reading these posts.</p>

<p>I think the OP, and a number of students and parents have some incorrect ideas and are not always able to “hear” they are incorrect.
Lower income students do not get to go “for next to nothing”. Go check out the Financial aid threads. Kids with 4000, 6,000, 8,000 EFC but the colleges expecting 10-30k from the parents. Just because the EFC is low does not mean it’s met in most cases.
Picking Princeton financial aid calculator is a mistake, because ONLY Princeton (maybe a few others) meet need the way they do.<br>
My guess is that maybe 20 kids at each college, out of the millions of h.s. grads, are getting a full ride to college, but everyone else is paying.
After your read the “EFC is low but the price is high anyway” threads read a few from the kids whose parents can pay but don’t want to do so. Pretty sad state.</p>

<p>OK Garland. I give up. The funny thing is my values are a lot closer to yours than other posters who you think you agree with. :)</p>

<p>Mini, ;).</p>

<p>You know, I always think so, till we run into each other on a thread like this.</p>

<p>Edit–by which i mean, this is a thread bemoaning the choices for people with EFC high enough not to get aid, which in any other place would be considered wealthy people.</p>

<p>And I just would like to see the lives of my students, and the millions like them, made easier before I worry about who didn’t go to Europe or build a new room, or who got an extra pair of fancy shoes.</p>

<p>It just seems misplaced to me, and anyone that feeling puts me in company with seems okay to me.</p>

<p>Oldin Jersey</p>

<p>That’s what I worry about.</p>

<p>laserbrother</p>

<p>I care about you and your kids. Instead of spending all of your savings on fluff, maybe spend a little consulting with someone who can help you find the best path to your kids’ future. I know you care about them. Don’t go crazy on not enough information.</p>

<p>“After your read the “EFC is low but the price is high anyway” threads read a few from the kids whose parents can pay but don’t want to do so. Pretty sad state.” </p>

<p>Maybe the kids parents “can pay” for state college that is or a school that will meet them part of the way with merit-aid. Maybe kids are just too stuck on the IVIES or elite schools.</p>

<p>"And I just would like to see the lives of my students, and the millions like them, made easier before I worry about who didn’t go to Europe or build a new room, or who got an extra pair of fancy shoes.</p>

<p>It just seems misplaced to me, and anyone that feeling puts me in company with seems okay to me."</p>

<p>Garland, that’s just a different issue to me than what the op was addressing.
Savers do come out worse than spenders many times. I don’t know why we can’t acknowledge that fact and then say other people need help more than people making $120,000. </p>

<p>When I say savers are penalized, I’m not dismissing all the people that really, really need help.</p>

<p>Laser, I suspect both from this post and from your past posts that you could be earning 1 million $ tax free and it still wouldn’t be giving you an ounce of happiness.</p>

<p>Your home is an asset like any other… borrow against it, sell it, whatever. The tax payers subsidized your purchase of the home since the interest is deductible, so my guess is that the people who get screwed in your scenario are your neighbors down the street renting the top floor of the three family frame house, who couldn’t afford to buy a place; all the increase in value of their current house goes to the owner who gets the tax write offs anyway… so not only don’t they own a house, they subsidized your getting one… and they probably can’t afford their EFC either so their kid ends up bussing tables and going to CC (which their tax dollars pay for as well.)</p>

<p>Hey, you’re not so bad off now, are you?</p>

<p>People can be broke on 120K a year even before they buy their new kitchen; people can be broke on 500K; I’ll save my tears for the waitress down at the waffle house earning $8 an hour with no health insurance, thank you very much.</p>