<p>D1’s best friend held few positions in her sorority, very active in an Asian organization, and because of her involvement with those organizations, she was tapped to be in one of those “secret society” at her school. All of that, combined with her grades and LSAT, she got into Harvard, Stanford, Columbia…law schools. </p>
<p>I am sure there are some graduate programs that wouldn’t give a hoot about a student’s EC, but to say belonging to Greek life would be a turn off is really stretching it. Yes, most of us have a certain affinity for some activities and strong dislike of others, but not everyone is created equal. It really just gets old when same posters consistently portray people in the Greek life as partiers, air head, not academic…Because if ECs are not important then those graduate programs wouldn’t ask applicants to list them. If they do ask, maybe they want to know applicants are not spending all of their time studying and avoiding any kind of social interaction.</p>
<p>I find mini’s comment very strange and one dimensional:
Does that mean if I want to further my education in biology, I wouldn’t have any other interest? A lot of people list on their job resume of their personal interest - mountain climbing, running, ballroom dancing. It lets potential employer (or adcom at a graduate school) to see another side of applicant. I would hope that just because someone is interested in biology doesn’t mean he/she spends all of his/her time in a lab. I have always worked at very demanding work. One thing I try to find out at interviews is to see if an applicant has other interests outside of work in order to have work/life balance. One of my top managers used to be an Olympic rower contender. She takes off on weekends for few hours to sail/row to blow off some steam. I wouldn’t question why she would sail rather than spend more time at work.</p>
<p>“Does that mean if I want to further my education in biology, I wouldn’t have any other interest?”</p>
<p>Of course not. But as someone looking at the 100 applicants for the 4 places I have to offer, I would want to know why one of them thought it important to tell me about her social club. ANY social club. Doesn’t have to be a sorority. Why is it here? Who is her advisor?</p>
<p>If you show me an EC relevant to the work you will be doing, I’ll take positive notice. If you think that your sorority membership has relevance to your biology graduate admission, I’ll certainly question your judgment. For about 10-15 seconds. Then I’ll move on. </p>
<p>Now if she had interest in antique roadsters…</p>
<p>When people on this board talk about graduate school they sometimes mean law school, medical school, business school. When I hear graduate school, I think a PhD in science, math, English, history. For a PhD application, listing sorority or fraternity affiliation would look unusual. It would be a distraction to the reader, imho. However, please don’t make up your mind based on answers on CC. Your child should have professors in her department advising her on her application. They know what the professors in the programs to which she is applying want to see. There are no admissions counselors. Professors are picking the students they want to work with. There is no way you can second guess this and you shouldn’t try -again, imho.</p>
<p>"
Broad abilities include the ability to communicate…"</p>
<p>I’d prefer someone who could fish. But if she wants to list Toastmasters…</p>
<p>(However, fishing could have relevance to biology. Did I ever tell you about the sex life of the three-spined stickleback fish, as opposed to that of the Communist ten-spined ones?)</p>
<p>mini - you have your agenda, lets just leave it at that. Why should every EC be relevant to what an applicant wants to study? I have been involved with finance and technology for 30+ years, but I have a lot of interest outside of work, like enjoying good wine, travel, shopping, people watching. I am good at what I do because I am more than just about my work.</p>
<p>I have plenty of interests outside of work. And that’s just the point, they are outside of work. (Actually, my whole life is outside of work.) If I’m looking for a biology graduate student who is going to be a credit to my lab, be my work slave, and help my reputation (and my funding), and will become a great scholar in her own right (so it will burnish my reputation even further), I will want someone who is dedicated to just that. I don’t care in the least about her social club, whether it be the Mousketeers or Omega Omega Omega. But, more important than that, I will wonder (for all of 10-15 seconds) why she thinks I would.</p>
<p>in any case, the hypothetical scenario was that the applicant was an OFFICER of the sorority, not simply a member.</p>
<p>My S held several officer roles in his fraternity. I can assure you that they contributed to his personal growth and social/organizational skills, and didn’t detract from his intellectualism one tiny bit.</p>
<p>I am a person who is on the non-fan of Greek life side of the spectrum. But since I have actually gotten to KNOW fraternity members, both as a student and later, I have actually put my initial prejudices aside, at least to some degree.</p>
<p>Fraternities and sororities and Toastmasters and Mouseketeers and key societies and Skull and Bones and eating clubs and finals clubs and badminton and bowling and philatelic societies are just fine - they might do great for the people who are in them, especially perhaps as officers. They might even be useful if going into business. </p>
<p>I did assume (perhaps wrongly) that graduate school did not mean professional school. And for graduate school, well, if the person developed some special skills that are relevant that will come through in an interview or an essay, it’s terrific. But listing them on the application will (briefly) make me question the applicant’s good judgment.</p>
<p>For the record, I was Secretary of the Amateur Virtuosi, a cricket club made up exclusively of individuals who had never held a cricket bat before setting foot on the British Isles.</p>
<p>It is ridiculous to expect anyone to be a work slave and only be dedicated to one pursue in life, whether it is in graduate school or professional life.</p>
<p>The last few years my kids and their friends have been applying to a variety of professional and graduate schools. They have also applied for jobs in business. As far as I can tell, each application they submit is tailored to the specific position for which they are applying. These are all extreme high achievers with many extracurricular positions of leadership at their undergraduate schools, in addition to national awards in their fields of interest. They only list those leadership positions where relevant. The application they submit to a consulting firm is entirely different than the application they submit to a PhD program. It doesn’t matter how admirable and useful interests outside the field of study are if they aren’t the norm on a certain type of application. It will look like the candidate doesn’t understand what is appropriate for that particular application process. That could be troubling to reviewers. That is why I am recommending the OP has her daughter consult with her professors. ymmv</p>
<p>I think mini and I are saying the same thing in different ways. Maybe not.</p>
<p>I don’t think so. What you (alh) posted actually makes sense.</p>
<p>I don’t know what a PhD application looks like. But for a job application, it is more free form as to what an applicant wants to share on his/her resume.</p>
<p>I agree with the posters who are suggesting the relevancy of the experience be evaluated. As a lifelong volunteer with my own sorority, I know that there are young people who have served as a VP Finance for a chapter with a budget exceeding $1 million. Someone applying to a business school would want to include that experience. There are a lot of positions that could be relevant to certain degree programs: President- Business, student affairs; VP Member Development- Psychology, Business, Education; Philanthropy Chair- Business, Public Policy; Public Relations Chair- PR/Marketing; VP Recruitment- Human Resources, Marketing</p>
<p>Greek life experience would be very helpful to someone applying to a Master’s program in student affairs. </p>
<p>If you can extrapolate the skills required for the position held to skills utilized for that type of degree program, include it.</p>
<p>Mini, your prejudice is showing and you’re assuming your prejudices are universally shared. Depending on the student /experience, Greek organizations can absolutely provide opportunities for leadership in the ways mentioned above. We know that you think it’s all drunken debauchery blah blah blah. But open your mind, ok?</p>
<p>And these graduate applications that don’t value any semblance of what makes someone human versus a research slave? They sound dreadful.</p>
<p>“For the record, I was Secretary of the Amateur Virtuosi, a cricket club made up exclusively of individuals who had never held a cricket bat before setting foot on the British Isles.”</p>
<p>While this is true in general, many Profs…especially old-school ones WILL expect academic grad students…especially at the PhD level to spend practically every waking moment on their academic program whether it’s coursework, oral/written comp prep/exam, research topic proposal, assisting advising Prof on his/her research, and completing the dissertation. </p>
<p>The failure of some former academic grad school student older cousins to understand this even after they’ve admitted this was clearly communicated to them by their advisors/department was a key reason why they were booted out of their PhD programs. </p>
<p>Especially considering they were doing so for the sake of my aunt’s weekend dinner parties EVERY weekend. Having been around some old-school type Profs, that’s one of what they’d consider the most “frivolous” reasons to not dedicate one’s every waking moment to one’s PhD work. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>While some may not make this obvious, every Prof I’ve had mentioned that academic grad programs…especially PhD programs are usually only interested in ECs with DIRECT RELATION/RELEVANCE to the field. Listing anything that’s irrelevant will at best, be neutral unless one’s lucky to have Senior faculty application readers who view that irrelevant EC as a positive. </p>
<p>In short…it’s not as absolute as mini put it as there’s more nuance and YMMV in this…but there is a real risk of being summarily rejected if the academic grad app readers are Profs who expect complete “seriousness” and “dedication” to the field.</p>