Just different from what you may be used to. These are grad students, not incoming freshmen, so the expectations may be different. On some campuses the question might be about the nature and quantity of guns, with the “no guns” answer being the exception.
Roommates had no right to search her room. Wonder if she even can sue them? Seems an invasion of privacy at minimum. Guns are legal in MA per much of what is written above. I cannot believe people think you cannot own guns in any state if you don’t follow the law. You can. 2nd Amendment (ownership laws vary-all states all gun possession).
All that said, I can understand why room mates are concerned. They should move if they have fears, anxiety etc. I would. Yes, they should have asked and avoided this situation. Yes, it could be dangerous if the gun is used incorrectly. Yes, they may not agree with her. No, the fact that one roommate lost a friend to gun violence is totally immaterial to the matter at hand. This seems to bring up a good issue, which is adding guns to a lease much like someone would add pets. In fact, it may be that legally one cannot disallow legal gun ownership in an apartment per the 2nd amendment. If someone wants to own a gun and follows the rules they can. What if she was a police officer? No one would think it strange at all that she had a gun ( part of her job). For some people, gun ownership is important. I’m not comfortable with it but it’s protected under the Constitution and has been protected many times.
I think I’m the only one that raised issues of legality and it was about possessing guns without a license in a state that requires licenses and has no reciprocity. I don’t think anyone suggested owning them was illegal. The question was whether the law allows her to do what she did, and it does.
Perhaps part of the anxiety arose from the fact that at the time they complained to the landlord she was not complying with the law requiring secure storage. The specific wording of the law is
Seems like the real issue is storing the guns loaded and unsecured against theft or unauthorized use. Wouldn’t any gun owner prefer to store the guns unloaded and secure against theft and unauthorized use, like the NRA recommends at https://gunsafetyrules.nra.org/ ?
If the gun is intended for self defense as most handguns are, loaded and in a quickly accessible safe is the best compromise.
Even though I hit the “agree” button I’d be worried about someone having a gun for self protection in my living space. I’ve heard too many stories about people killing family members by mistake.
I would also be worried about any kids in an environment with unlocked guns. I assume the roommates are all single women but even single women occasionally babysit their friend’s kids or have visits from young relatives. This woman’s room was unlocked all weekend and if the roommates could find her gun a kid could too.
Massachusetts is, I believe, the only state that requires that all firearms be stored with a lock in place whenever they’re not in use. Guns are used in just 9% of youth suicides in Massachusetts, compared to 39% of youth suicides nationally, and the overall suicide death rate among youth in Massachusetts is 35% below the national average.
Gun ownership is highly correlated with suicide rates. I can’t claim causality, but if you look at these two maps side by side it’s striking.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/gun-owners-study-one-in-three/
I’m not a constitutional lawyer, but private property rights likely supersedes the 2nd amendment. If the property owner prohibits guns in the leases, then to use a legal term, “tough noogies.”
It doesn’t sound like that’s the case. If so the landlord would have mentioned a restriction in his letter. It’s possible she has a legal case. They may not be able to force her to move. The result, however, may be that the other roommates move out and she ends up being on the hook for the entire $6,000/mo. rent. That’s not a great outcome for her.
Not part of her lease.
The owner just asked her to move out instead of allowing the other roomies out, in which case, he claims she would be responsible for the full rent. (Not likely, iMO, since leases in the Boston area to such disparate groups usually makes everyone financially responsible for everything. If the other roomies move, they are still on the hook for rent due. I’d be surprised if the owner can let the roomies move out and then make her responsible for the whole amount.)
I was speaking generally, not specifically to the Boston situation; however, the residential and commercial leases that I’m personally familiar with here in CA have gun prohibitions.
Clearly, and for most people. And I’m thankful for that!
The issue is modern power tools can saw through most safes like butter. A quality safe tl-30x6 rated and large enough to hold rifles can run 10k. For a safe to do any good at all, it needs to be bolted to the floor, which I doubt any landlord would allow.
There are so many differences. I agree I would feel unsafe if there were unsecured loaded weapons. That is a recipe for disaster for anyone. Our family (all but me) grew up hunting and target shooting. They all had to take intense safety courses before allowed to handle the weapons. The guns always must be locked up and all but one of my husband’s kept unloaded (but still locked up) and the ammo locked in a separate cabinet.
My son and his friends at college regularly go skeet shooting and I didn’t think anything of it. They do NOT keep weapons on campus. A friend’s father who lives in town keeps them locked in his gun safe. Not all weapons are bad when used responsibly, but that is just my opinion. I know I wouldn’t have held it until I learned more about them.
While a weaker safe will not stop a thief who specifically targets the guns and brings the tools to get through any security (risking the extra noise and time), it can still prevent theft by an opportunistic burglar who enters looking for money or jewelry or anything valuable and easily stealable but finds an unsecured gun. It can also stop an opportunistic dishonest visitor who was invited in by a roommate (who may not know of his sticky fingers).
Locking something with low security locks will not stop all thieves, but will stop some (this applies generally, not specific to guns). So just because you cannot have the highest security does not mean that you should have no security.
^Or that someone would find it and accidentally shoot someone.
There’s an old TV ad, I can’t remember if it’s was a PSA or from an advocacy group, but it shows a preschooler dragging a chair into a room, lugging one phone book, then another, and a third, and plopping them them on the chair. He climbs up on this tower to stretch on his tiptoes and retrieve the box hidden on the high shelf. He opens the box revealing the gun inside. I remember being transfixed by this ad when it came out.
As to the original story, I keep wondering what was happening in this apartment before the room search. Were there heated arguments about Presidential politics or the Second Amendment?
Some interesting points. I don’t think that leases in MA can prohibit guns. Anyone know of a law/case that highlights this?
@sushiritto Property rights do NOT supersede other rights such as the 2nd amendment. Whatever gave you that idea? In fact, you cannot say that any one right supersedes the other. They don’t. Things in law relate to previous laws. This is related to our legal system and it’s historical development. Unless you can clearly cite previous cases/standing you can’t make things up because you think one right is stronger than another. Most people know that without being constitutional lawyers. Did make me laugh as I know many people are opposed to the 2nd amendment and would love nothing better than to make it disappear.
Honestly, it’s a GREAT legal case and it’s likely we haven’t heard the last of it. I think I overheard on the radio that the gun owner is also a Harvard law student. Ahem. Should be someone who can bring this to fruition.
The landlord asking her to pay for the others is also laughable. If they have a lease ( and it seems they do) then she’d be listed on it for her portion and they can’t make her pay more. Again, where do people come up with some of these ideas?
@Happytimes2001,
There are a few states that prohibit landlords from restricting firearms but I’m pretty sure MA is not one of them. The 2nd amendment applies to the government, not private property owners, and the Fair Housing Act does not address gun ownership, meaning gun owners are not a protected class. It would be like a landlord putting a restriction on smoking or on music after midnight.
@Happytimes2001 — actually usually ALL the tenants are responsible for ALL of the rent. If one room mate skips town without paying, the landlord can go after the other room mates for the full rent.
We don’t know what their particular lease arrangement. Any one of the roommates, or one of their parents, might be liable for the whole lease if something falls through, or each roommate individually.
Not sure about housing laws but I’ve seen plenty of “no guns” signs on the doors of retail businesses and institutional buildings in states like AZ.