OP…why did you start this thread if you don’t want to hear the advice of people who are MDs and/ or have kids who successfully went through the process? If you trust your YouTube friends…go for it. There doesn’t seem to be an advantage to graduating early…but your D should do what she and her advisor thinks is best.
I started the thread to ask question about my daughter’s plan to graduate college a semester earlier and the affect of it, but somehow turned into a “what are my chances” discussion. I do appreciate all the advices from this thread, but some of the advices to me are still debatable. Along with the advices here, I also look other mediums like youtube to learn more about the process.
To clarify, Dr. Gray is not my friend and I’m not totally agree with his assessments, but I have also learned more about the process from his podcasts and youtube video.
I believe the conversation veered a bit from your question because of your D’s plan to apply to med school this June. That’s well before graduation, whether she graduates early or not. So the question became can she have a successful med school application under her current plan. Will her application be strong enough this June?
I do appreciate all the advices and suggestions from here. They are very helpful, when my daughter applied for colleges 3 years ago. I will continue to take advices or provide input from experiences to help other parents/students in the the long and stressful journeys.
Your daughter has very strong stats, but so do many… and those stats alone will not set her apart from the others who also bring impressive stats to the table.
I still do not understand what the rush is. I would spend the time working in underserved communities and building a strong application. There is no advantage to applying now.
Gaining additional experiences will help with interviews down the road. Drawing from experiences and having stories to share will help with questions such as “ describe a time you failed and how you handled it, how would you handle disagreements, tell me about an ethical situation and how you handled it, what would you say to a patient who challenged your beliefs etc.
Your daughter is young and there is no rush. A gap year or 2 can only help… but it’s your choice and not mine. Do as you wish.
This is exactly my view also.
Like OP’s daughter, I also graduated university at age 20. 20 is quite young to be graduating university. It is also quite young to be figuring out what we want to do next.
Let’s suppose that she graduates in December at age 20. She can work in the medical field (apparently she is already some form of medical assistant) for 8 months and it will be August. 8 months of full time work comes to something like 1,300 hours of work. This will help her applications quite a bit. Then starting in August (which as I understand it would be about 17 months from now) she can send in her applications, to start a bit more than a year later. This still is relatively young to start medical school, and there is no reason to rush. Life is not a race.
I suppose that we never know why we were or were not accepted to any given graduate program. We can give our best guess. My daughter who is currently studying for a DVM and I both think that her academics and test scores were good enough to get her application seriously considered, but it was her relevant experience and the resulting references that got her accepted to multiple programs (with one rejection). One issue is that there will be lots of applicants with strong academics and strong test scores. Experience and the references that come along with the experience is very important.
The one thing that I am not clear on are the consequences (if any) of applying and not getting in anywhere. If a student applies and does not get any acceptances, they can work and gain more experience. When they apply again a year later, it is not clear to me whether their previous applications and rejections will matter.
For some families, the costs of a second round of applications cuts into the available money for tuition or living expenses. Meaning an increase in loans.
For other families with no financial concerns, it’s just time consuming to have to come up with an entirely new application season and strategy.
We don’t know the OPs financial situation…
I believe @WayOutWestMom Addressed this in an above post.
The OP feels that their student is ready to apply to medical schools during their junior year in undergrad, regardless whether they graduate in December or May of their senior year.
I’m not sure there is much more to add here.
Here’s are some pages that will help a student determine if they have met all the expected pre-med competencies for entering med students
A pre-med checklist
https://advising.utah.edu/preprofessional/premed/general-preparation.php#extracurricular
Community Service
Because you are preparing for a humanitarian profession, you need to have volunteer experiences that demonstrate a commitment to serving others. This should be ongoing throughout your college years prior to application for admission.
Competitive applicants complete 3 different experiences each lasting 6 months to a year in the 4 years before they matriculate.
Patient Exposure
Interacting well with patients is one of the key indicators of a successful future provider. Your experience can be either paid or unpaid. It may or may not require certification.
Examples include ER volunteer, nursing home, hospice and more.
Competitive applicants complete 1-2 different experiences each lasting at least 6 months to a year, total of 100+ hrs.
Research Experience
Physicians depend on medical literature to remain current in their field throughout their careers. Most medical schools highly recommend participation in research.
The UUSOM requires a research experience that tests a hypothesis. Your research experience can be from many different areas. It does not have to be medically related or in a lab.
Competitive applicants complete at least 1 experience under a supervision of a faculty lasting 6 months to a year.
Leadership Experience
As a physician, you will be a leader and team member in many ways – with your patients, your staff, your colleagues, and in your community.
Examples include offices held in organizations, committee work; leadership in church activities; coordinating a project; managing, training, supervising at work or in other activities; teaching experience of any kind; coaching; peer counseling or mentoring, etc.
Competitive applicants complete 3 different experiences each lasting 3 months or longer in the 4 years before they matriculate.
Physician Shadowing
This should be one of your first experiences as a premedical student. Observing a physician in action will help you gather the information you need to fully commit to the profession and to learn about a variety of medical specialties.
Many students find physicians to shadow through volunteer experiences at medical facilities. You should shadow both M.D and D.O. doctors.
Competitive applicants shadow 3-5 different physicians, spending at least 8-10 hours with each, and have a good balance between primary care and non-primary care physicians.
From the University of Utah SOM’ s admission page:
Applicants are encouraged to participate in a variety of activities that are of interest to them and support their goals toward becoming a physician.
All activities must have occurred since high school graduation and are encouraged to align with the AAMC Premed Competencies for Entering Medical Students.
Please note that examples listed below are not comprehensive and are provided as application guidance. Each applicant is encouraged to list their own unique experiences to present their strongest application.
Clinical Experience
Experiences in a clinical setting demonstrating a commitment to medicine and providing patient care, understanding of the typical day of a physician, and/or interaction with different specialties, medical environments, and patient populations.
Examples of clinical experiences may include:
- Shadowing or working with physicians (MD or DO).
- Employment as a medical scribe and/or within clinical research.
- Patient care roles that interface with physicians or other healthcare professionals (including but not limited to CNA, dialysis tech, EKG tech, EMT, medical assistant, patient advocate, phlebotomist, psych tech, RN, LPN, midwife, military medic, medical interpretation, etc.)
- Volunteering in health care roles that allow a person to observe or participate in one or more aspect(s) of the clinical care experience.
- Any other clinical experiences that may not directly interface with physicians but have been valuable as part of your overall exploration of medicine.
Community Engagement
Experiences demonstrating a commitment to service and community involvement.
Examples of community engagement activities may include:
- Unpaid volunteer experiences (clinical and non-clinical)
- Paid community engagement activities (e.g., employment with a non-profit organization)
- Community outreach through campus clubs or local organizations
- Service activities resulting in positive impact on the communities served and a willingness to contribute to the welfare of others.
Leadership
Demonstrated experiences showcasing one’s abilities to lead, make decisions, and/or hold positions of responsibility.
Examples of leadership activities may include:
- Positions of responsibility of others through employment, school, religious groups, clubs, or community service.
- Positions of responsibility related to managing projects or outcomes.
Intellectual Curiosity
Involvement in activities that demonstrate initiative, achievements, and evidence of continued learning and growth as it relates to research, academia, or professional endeavors.
Examples of intellectual curiosity activities may include:
Research – Including, but not limited to: Research completed as part of a class or project, demonstrated understanding of the research process, experiences and the functions of working in a lab environment. Research may be completed across a variety of subjects and specialties.
Academic Projects and Achievements – Including, but not limited to: Thesis, capstone projects, poster presentations, awards or recognitions, academic endeavors or achievements that further one’s education or skills.
Professional Growth and Career Endeavors – Including, but not limited to: Career Certifications (EMT, CPR, CNA, etc.), business involvement or entrepreneurship, professional development courses or certificates, organizational memberships/participation (national groups/organizations), conference attendance, leadership forums, etc.), other impactful projects or achievements related to one’s employment or career goals.
Additional Activities
Applicants may have activities that may not fit into one designated category but may be valuable to their application.
Examples of additional activities may include:
- Creative endeavors or extracurricular activities
- Military service
- Caring for or being the primary caretaker of an ill family member
- Full time employment or other activities that may have impacted their application to medical school Activity Recommendations
Applicants are encouraged to participate in a variety of activities that are of interest to them and support their goals toward becoming a physician.
All activities must have occurred since high school graduation and are encouraged to align with the AAMC Premed Competencies for Entering Medical Students.
Please note that examples listed below are not comprehensive and are provided as application guidance. Each applicant is encouraged to list their own unique experiences to present their strongest application.
Clinical Experience
Experiences in a clinical setting demonstrating a commitment to medicine and providing patient care, understanding of the typical day of a physician, and/or interaction with different specialties, medical environments, and patient populations.
Examples of clinical experiences may include:
- Shadowing or working with physicians (MD or DO).
- Employment as a medical scribe and/or within clinical research.
- Patient care roles that interface with physicians or other healthcare professionals (including but not limited to CNA, dialysis tech, EKG tech, EMT, medical assistant, patient advocate, phlebotomist, psych tech, RN, LPN, midwife, military medic, medical interpretation, etc.)
- Volunteering in health care roles that allow a person to observe or participate in one or more aspect(s) of the clinical care experience.
- Any other clinical experiences that may not directly interface with physicians but have been valuable as part of your overall exploration of medicine.
Community Engagement
Experiences demonstrating a commitment to service and community involvement.
Examples of community engagement activities may include:
- Unpaid volunteer experiences (clinical and non-clinical)
- Paid community engagement activities (e.g., employment with a non-profit organization)
- Community outreach through campus clubs or local organizations
- Service activities resulting in positive impact on the communities served and a willingness to contribute to the welfare of others.
Leadership
Demonstrated experiences showcasing one’s abilities to lead, make decisions, and/or hold positions of responsibility.
Examples of leadership activities may include:
- Positions of responsibility of others through employment, school, religious groups, clubs, or community service.
- Positions of responsibility related to managing projects or outcomes.
Intellectual Curiosity
Involvement in activities that demonstrate initiative, achievements, and evidence of continued learning and growth as it relates to research, academia, or professional endeavors.
Examples of intellectual curiosity activities may include:
Research – Including, but not limited to: Research completed as part of a class or project, demonstrated understanding of the research process, experiences and the functions of working in a lab environment. Research may be completed across a variety of subjects and specialties.
Academic Projects and Achievements – Including, but not limited to: Thesis, capstone projects, poster presentations, awards or recognitions, academic endeavors or achievements that further one’s education or skills.
Professional Growth and Career Endeavors – Including, but not limited to: Career Certifications (EMT, CPR, CNA, etc.), business involvement or entrepreneurship, professional development courses or certificates, organizational memberships/participation (national groups/organizations), conference attendance, leadership forums, etc.), other impactful projects or achievements related to one’s employment or career goals.
Additional Activities
Applicants may have activities that may not fit into one designated category but may be valuable to their application.
Examples of additional activities may include:
- Creative endeavors or extracurricular activities
- Military service
- Caring for or being the primary caretaker of an ill family member
- Full time employment or other activities that may have impacted their application to medical school