<p>Wow. I was definitely taught that it would be Douglas’ ball. Perhaps the rule re/ Jesus’ possessive was overextended by my teachers?</p>
<p>
Mine too, I guess; I’ve never heard of the “Moses/Jesus exception” till this moment. I suspect it may be a regional thing, or a secular vs. parochial thing, or even a district-by-district thing. Most of the online sources I can find say that coureur and I are both right–i.e., they list s’ and s’s as alternative forms for the possessive singular.</p>
<p>So:</p>
<p>Jones lives there.
That’s Jones’ house. OR That’s Jones’s house.
The Joneses live there.
That’s the Joneses’ house.</p>
<p>Thank you! Our son’s name ends in “s” and I have for decades been going against the prevailing direction in using “names’s” to convey the possessive case. I’m still odd person out, but it seems that I am correct in being so odd.</p>
<p>Bartleby’s grammar reference on the possessive apostrophe: [Rules</a> of Usage. Strunk, William, Jr. 1918. Elements of Style](<a href=“Authors - Collection at Bartleby.com”>II. ELEMENTARY RULES OF USAGE - Collection at Bartleby.com)</p>
<p>For use of the apostrophe and comma, I also must recommend the book *Eats Shoots & Leaves<a href=“or,%20alternatively,%20%5BI%5DEats,%20Shoots%20&%20Leaves%5B/I%5D”>/I</a>. Informative, witty, and a good read!</p>
<p>Chedva, I’m putting the book Eats Shoots & Leaves on my birthday Amazon wishlist, thanks. Oops I mean … wishlist; thanks. (Must be vewwy vewwy carefuw on this thwead!)</p>
<p>Now. Another tangle: how does one correctly use quotation marks, especially at the end of a sentence, or where a sentence in quotes is embedded in another sentence?</p>
<p>The drudge wandered aimlessly through the swamp muttering, “Jeez and crackers; how do I proceed without dumping into the quagmire?” as the ground, in the same instant, fell away and the swamp gulped drudge pie.</p>
<p>Also and more of a question for me, as in the sentence:</p>
<p>He called to her with the cry, “My love my love come to me.” I always want to write …come to me". See? Why is the final quotation mark supposed to come after the period? It seems to leave things hanging and I always want to put another period, but of course that is silly. So then I want to put the period last. But them nuns taught me to stick the thing before them quotes. =)</p>
<p>Hugcheck, I love the expression,“Jeez and crackers”. Actually, the whole sentence made me laugh. I believe you are using quotation marks correctly.</p>
<p>Most punctuation goes inside the quotes. If the whole sentence is a question but the quote is not, it goes outside. Didn’t JFK say, “Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country”?</p>
<p>@Hugcheck–this is one area where British practice differs–sensibly, I think–from US practice. In the US, you are always told to put a period or comma inside the quotation marks. In Britain, you may put the period or comma inside or outside the quotation marks depending on its relation to the quoted material.</p>
<p>So in both countries, you’d write</p>
<p>Jean said, “The shopping list is on the counter where I left it.” </p>
<p>because the period closes off the quotation itself, as well as the sentence that frames it.</p>
<p>But in the US, you’d also write</p>
<p>Bill liked to refer to his mother-in-law as “the Doberman.”</p>
<p>while in the UK, you’d write</p>
<p>Bill liked to refer to his mother-in-law as “the Doberman”.</p>
<p>because the period functions only in relation to the framing sentence, not the quoted material.</p>
<p>^^^^Hmm, all good points above.</p>
<p>Keep 'em coming, people.</p>
<p>BTW, it turns out that the “Jesus/Moses exception” that I said I had never heard of is right there in the Chicago style manual, which I use frequently at work. :o </p>
<p>I guess that shows how often the issue comes up in practice, for me anyway.</p>
<br>
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<p>I agree. I’ve always liked the Britsh quotation practice better. But being an American, I usually stick with the American practice in my writing rather than having people fussing over my “mistake.”</p>
<p>Thanks, Onward. That sentence crafted itself as I tried not to make my drudge a “he” or a “she.” One of my favorite high school English teachers challenged us not to use the word, “is,” in a descriptive essay about a relative. (Did I use the quotation marks correctly so far???) Since then I have found that writing with crafting parameters can make the text much more interesting. And the process is fun, like a mini contest. Also, who wrote the book, “Harmless Drudges?” I used to have that floating around the bookcases and my limited memory recalls that it was pretty funny…</p>
<p>Anyway, let’s talk again about commas. Um. What is a comma splice, please? My only rule of thumb for commas is use less of them than you think you need. So I write along, inserting commas where my thought pauses, and then I go back and reread, and delete most of them. I never had the comma lesson in school.</p>
<p>Incidentally, both DH and both sons claim they never had the apostrophe lesson in school. They are apostrophe limited. My suggestion is: if you’re not going to teach apostrophe useage in school, then let’s just all agree to STOP USING THEM. Get rid of 'em. YES!!! No more apostrophes at all, ever. Whaddayathink? At least that way they wouldn’t so commonly pollute plurals.</p>
<p>Also, Nightchef, I like the British style for the sentence,</p>
<p>Bill liked to refer to his mother-in-law as “the Doberman”.</p>
<p>That period at the end feels like a good stomp of the foot. </p>
<p>Now, what would have been correct useage of paren’s for including the reference to Night’s sentence? My eyes are glazing over…</p>
<p>A comma splice is when you join two independent clauses together with a comma without using a conjunction:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The use of commas is often a matter of taste. There are some rules, but also a lot of cases where you can include a comma or not, as it suits your ear. (The comma after “not” in that last sentence is a good example.)</p>
<p>It’s funny to look at writing from a couple of hundred years ago and note how different their use of commas is from ours. For instance, the first sentence of Pride and Prejudice contains two commas, both of which I would be inclined to mark for deletion:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Austen’s second comma here, BTW, is an example of my pet comma peeve: separating a subject from its predicate with a single comma. Drives me nuts.</p>
<p>I’m new to this discussion, so here are some of my personal rants on misuse of the English language:</p>
<p>In my daily reading of the writing of many of my coworkers (most of whom have college degrees), I too see overusage of commas that, if I pause every time I come across one, can, drive, me, nuts (you get the point).</p>
<p>I often see the word “which” used when the correct word is “that”. Microsoft Office has one error message with incorrect usage of the word “which” that drives me nuts whenever I see it…goes something like “the message which created this file has an error”.</p>
<p>Incorrect confusion of the words “ensure”, “insure” and “assure”. In most cases the correct word is ensure, but people who should know better tend to use the other words interchangeably to mean the same thing.</p>
<p>You ensure that there will be no problem. You insure against a loss by selling people insurance in case there is a problem. Finally, you assure everyone that there will be no problem.</p>
<p>Mixup of “principle” and “principal” --even some well-known people, who should have access to someone more educated to check their work, make this mistake. [url=<a href=“http://www.allamericanspeakers.com/speakers/Dan-Quayle/538]Dan”>Dan Quayle | Speaking Fee | Booking Agent]Dan</a> Quayle Speaker Bio Find booking agent contact to book top speakers bureau and celebrities<a href=“4th%20paragraph”>/url</a> Ironically, the same bio states that “…Quayle is a skilled communicator …”</p>
<p>I think one of the symptoms of relying on computers, with their spellcheckers and all, is that the words that are there are spelled correctly, but they often aren’t the right words!</p>
<p>Night, your quote from Jane Austen is such a great sentence:</p>
<p>It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife. </p>
<p>Would it be as great without that second comma? Seriously. With the comma the sentence is paced slowly; it’s a deliberation. It sets a tone. It has a joke rhythm embedded. There’s almost a badumbum before the final clause. She is poking fun, after all, right? Without the comma the emphasis lands on the MUST. With the comma the emphasis lands on the WANT. Oh overthinking much? I just like the comma where it is in this instance. So we use commas less now, perhaps because people messed up their useage so much that those in charge decided to bag 'em all together. Hey ho! Let’s go apostrophe’s. Who need’s 'em.</p>
<p>Hugcheck: I agree with everything you said about the Austen sentence. It works perfectly on its own terms, and it would not be as successful if you messed with it–but it isn’t the way we write now.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>“At the hospital” sounds better to me. The latter case should be analogous to taking the bus to school, taking the bus to the school, and taking the bus to a school.</p>
<p>Taking “the bus to school” makes sense because it is a specific bus, the one that stops outside your house. </p>
<p>Generally, if asked how you get to school, you may say “by bus”. When thinking about going a long distance you may say “I’ll take a plane” or “I’ll fly”. Would you say “in summer I’ll take THE plane to Paris”?</p>