<p>Sadly there is violence in many, many places, even in paradise–HI. We have to figure out how to live our lives in this world anyway. I have never been to Nairobi, as I’ve had no reason to visit. Am always saddened when violence comes to unsuspecting public and takes children and others as “collateral damage.”</p>
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<p>Maybe, if you really only mean Canada.</p>
<p>I’ve been to this mall dozens of times while on assignment in Kenya, it’s a major focus of the expat community in Nairobi with many western-style shops, a good cafe with safe food and wifi and (or so it seemed) adequate security–soldiers with bazookas stationed at every entrance searching bags and backpacks. I haven’t seen any reports of how the terrorists were able to gain access–the garage doesn’t enter directly into the mall. The video footage is haunting–I know the approach streets where the soldiers are stationed so well, have been up and down the stairs to the main entrance where there were bodies at the outset of the attack, chatted with the owners of the Art Caffe (the first floor restaurant where many of the shooting took place–it does have an unsecured outdoor patio). In any case, sadly, I think this will significantly dampen the sense among NGO staff that Kenya is a relatively safe assignment. What a tragedy. And yes, I also have colleagues who were at the finish line when the bombs exploded in Boston, so the perception that there really is no place that is risk-free is all too accurate. We just can’t give in to fear.</p>
<p>Wow, thanks for the added perspective. Had no idea that bazooka-armed guards were at all entrances and does make you wonder about how they were able to bypass security and launch this massive attack–maybe overwhelming one or more checkpoints? The world is a different place from when we were young, especially with video footage that transmits these tragedies so quickly!</p>
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<p>Perhaps, not so much.</p>
<p>1966 Whitman sniper- 16 dead, 31 wounded on UT Austin campus
1967 Detroit riots - 43 dead, 1189 injured
May 1970 Kent State and Jackson State -6 dead, 21 wounded
1972 Olympics-
1970-80s -Central America death squads (I was in Guatemala in both the late 1970s and 1980s when they were wiping out pro-rebel villages and radical priests); targeting of civilians throughout Israel on buses and at shopping areas
1985 Philly police helicopter bombing of MOVE- 11 dead (including 5 kids), 60 houses burned to the ground
1985 Rome and Vienna airport bombings/shootings-19 civilians, 4 terrorists dead, 138 civilians injured</p>
<p>BTW-we were in the Vienna airport about 4 weeks before the attack in 1985. There were armed patrols all throughout the airport. They were in full military garb and they had fully automatic weapons.</p>
<p>I don’t put the Detroit riots or Kent State shootings by the National Guard in the same classification as terrorists or individuals armed with semi-automatic weapons. And the death squads in Central America were generally associated with police states, one party states, or military dictatorships. Not saying there has not been violence against civilians in the past, but those are different categories IMHO.</p>
<p>We lived in Germany in the mid-80s when we got to have a mirror run under our car every time we drove on post. We also got to open our trunks and hoods for the gate guards. The more things change, the more they stay the same.</p>
<p>Every time something like this happens, it reminds me what a sorry lot human beings can be. I know that there are also many stories of human kindness which are never told, but it seems like when people are really good, it’s in spite of our nature, not because of it.</p>
<p>Very very horrible days in Kenya. :(</p>
<p>Sad, terrible and senseless!</p>
<p>[Pregnant</a> Clinton Global Initiative staffer killed in Kenya mall shooting](<a href=“Pregnant Clinton Global Initiative staffer killed in Kenya mall shooting”>Pregnant Clinton Global Initiative staffer killed in Kenya mall shooting)</p>
<p>There had been a lot of warnings. There is always a risk. It is up to each to assess their risk tolerance - - including risk of death. That said, I’m glad that my son made it back safely.</p>
<p>[About.com:</a> <a href=“404 - Page Not Found”>404 - Page Not Found](<a href=“http://goafrica.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=goafrica&cdn=travel&tm=45&f=10&tt=2&bt=9&bts=83&zu=http%3A//travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_6025.html]About.com:”>http://goafrica.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=goafrica&cdn=travel&tm=45&f=10&tt=2&bt=9&bts=83&zu=http%3A//travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_6025.html)</a></p>
<p>07Dad, though the State Department travel warning gives a thorough briefing, it says that</p>
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<p>A savvy and careful traveller would be well aware of the dangers of the area, but the risk of this kind of attack wouldn’t be the sort of risk at the top of a mental worry list. </p>
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<p>D1 knew one of the victims–a brilliant young man with the kind of resume that would allow him to do anything he wanted. He chose to do economic development work in Kenya, because that was just who he was. There are a lot of really good people in the world, more than we’ll ever know.</p>
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<p>And, if they were really not as dumb as they were misguided, your list might have included the Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn group of terrorists. </p>
<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground_(organization[/url])”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground_(organization)</a></p>
<p>Of course, the damage of their youthful days pales in comparison to the ones inflicted on our education system. :)</p>
<p>I guess I read the U.S. Department of State warning to U.S. citizens of the risks of travel to Kenya to their personal security situation in light of continuing and recently heightened threats from terrorism, that al-Shabaab and its sympathizers have conducted retaliatory attacks against civilian and government targets in Kenya and of the IED explosions that had occurred in Nairobi and the concern for safety in public places as being pretty clear that there was a risk of frequenting Western intensive areas even in Nairobi. </p>
<p>Remember the bazookas and other military grade armament at the mall? Why have that if it wasn’t a prime target? Candidly, any place that had the degree of security for the prevention of such attacks is a prime target IMO. </p>
<p>Admittedly, I read the warnings about travel to northern Honduras in the late 1980s when the war in El Salvador was raging (with the support of Nicaragua and Cuba) and went in anyway. But, I realized that I was putting myself at possible fatal risk. Same with areas of Peru under the control of the Shining Path around the same time. But, those were places I wanted to visit.</p>
<p>When my son was starting to travel in Asia a few years ago we discussed areas of Malaysia that were deemed pretty dangerous. Same with the tourist spots (Western bars, night clubs and such) in Indonesia (mostly in Bali). He went anyhow but did avoid frequenting the tourist spots.</p>
<p>Like you say, everyone has to assess risk differently. I’d not be OK with traveling to Honduras in the late 1980’s, or traveling in an area under the control of insurgents, but would be OK until a few days ago with going to Nairobi. Fine with going to Israel during the Intifadas. </p>
<p>The presence of military-grade weapons in and of itself wouldn’t be enough to make a place a no-go for me. Heck, in that case we’d never even go to the airport. 
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<p>Now I’m thinking of a government employee friend who spent two year-long periods in Pakistan, and in fact was hurt in an Al-Queda bombing while stationed in Islamabad. OTOH, said friend says it’s too dangerous to go visit the Watts Towers in Los Angeles. Risk assessment is such an individual thing…</p>
<p>I get a pay-back all the time from having to watch what my son does now. He and his gf got back from Colombia two months ago and in their photos was a 6 foot long uber poisonous snake (dead) on a rock on a path they had hiked and in another photo was a six man Colombian Army jungle patrol that they had encountered in one of the remote areas they had hiked. Not sure which one had the more risky feel to me.</p>
<p>The prior year I got to look at photos of him and some fellow travelers hiking across rice paddies in Laos. The amount of unexploded ordinance from the US bombings still all over Laos made me nervous. He said they had asked the natives before they set out over any area on foot.</p>
<p>I will never understand the motives of anyone who intentionally targets innocent civilians anywhere in the world.
Sadly, when people from such turbulent countries and regions are offered asylum in western countries, they bring their fight with them and often times turn on the very people who tried to help them…</p>
<p>I’m getting more and more into the “know thine enemy” mode.</p>
<p>Not sure what can be done about it, but a good first step is to observe that you actually may have some enemies, and through no fault of your own. There is a widely-held view that this cannot possibly be the case, especially in an individual context. But we are routinely presented with pretty good evidence that, if we happened to be someplace at the right time, someone would kill us deliberately for what, to us, seemed to be no reason at all. And we wouldn’t even have to be punching them.</p>
<p>I tell my kids all the time to watch out for yourself. In this case, there was probably nothing anyone could have done. Just a slaughter of helpless victims. May the perpetrators burn in Hell.</p>
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Exactly so. It makes as much sense, if not more, to stop these people from coming here as advising travelers not to go there.</p>
<p>^^^ oh please. As if there are no peaceful Africans, Latin Americans and Georgians living in the U.S. </p>
<p>You’ve never heard of American born-and-raised mass killers? Have you been reading what’s going on in Chicago? Timothy McVeigh? Aaron Alexis?</p>
<p>Of course there are peaceful immigrants, but often time when they are offered asylum ( and I am not talking just here in the USA ) they DO continue their fight. It is indisputable and a big problem in Europe as well.
Pretending it isn’t a growing problem is a dangerous attitude IMO</p>