There’s a difference between “not many people of color can afford to live in this neighborhood” and “discrimination in housing.”
@pizzagirl:
Without getting into it, that isn’t true. One of the things to keep in mind is that the cost of housing is based in things like zoning, that in turn is why housing is so expensive. Zoning that doesn’t allow for things like townhouses or rental, relatively dense building makes housing more expensive, zoning that makes minimum plot sizes large, and in turn also requires building a certain size house on the lot (Westchester in NY state was famous for that, on a particular piece of property you often could build either a shack or a mansion, nothing in between), zoning is used to discriminate economically and socially, and that is a reality. That isn’t the topic at hand, but it is a form of discrimination and the courts in many states have held it to be.
I always find it odd when white, white, white schools choose to stage productions that focus on race. Our local girls Catholic school put on Hairspray a few years ago and there was maybe one AA girl in the cast. (They import boys to play roles, which I also think is odd–why not just do productions with girls?) To be honest though, I’m not sure the same issue applies to Hamilton at all. Could LMM specify something in the rights about casting? (I have no idea if that is at all possible.)
"always find it odd when white, white, white schools choose to stage productions that focus on race. Our local girls Catholic school put on Hairspray a few years ago and there was maybe one AA girl in the cast. "
Is it weird if mostly-black schools do Shakespeare?
I would think it poor optics on LMM’s part to specify race.
It would be impossible to police casting decisions if issues like race were specified. That will not happen.
I think there are certain shows where casting decisions need to be considered when planning for obtaining the rights. Shows like Hairspray, Ragtime, Showboat, etc. where racial issues are central to the story are going to need persons of color in the cast. Shows like Hamilton, or Shakespeare, etc. are not.
^^^This.
I love Hamilton, so do my kids, and we were fortunate enough to see it on Broadway (I bought the tix months in advance so didn’t pay a markup). As a longtime musical theater far (40 years, since my mom took me to see Annie as a kid), I can say it is unique in many ways. At the same time, it clearly builds on a great many traditions in American musical theater. What he manages to do is truly brilliant – Chernow himself said he could not believe it when he heard the first song, because LMM absolutely encapsulated the first 40 pages of his book. As far as accessibilty – yes, that’s a problem. But the cast album was released very early, much earlier than cast albums typically are, and it reached No. 1 on the rap charts. Lots of people are listening to it, even if they can’t see the show. LMM annotated the lyrics on genius.com so people can learn more about his influences. There is a high school program that is being rolled out in other cities. They are trying.
I think one of the remarkable things about Hamilton (and there are many remarkable things about it) is its profound lack of cynicism. That’s not common in American politics today. It is really saying that the American experiment is worth fighting for, and it does so by using modern idioms and non-traditional casting. Some of the songs – it’s just incredible what they’ve done. Cabinet Battle #1 involves a completely boring debate about the federal government assuming state debt. But the song is electric.
I am probably the only person posting here who has not listened to the soundtrack – I am about to (my young adult kid has been asking me for weeks if I have listened to it yet, but there’s been a lot going on). I have been reading this thread sporadically because I find it absolutely fascinating that young people are so in love with this musical (even my 10 year old nephew is a huge fan - he dressed up as Hamilton for Halloween).
Anyway, I am posting because I was just listening to NPR’s Fresh Air and the guest was a law professor – I can’t recall exactly how the conversation ended up about Hamilton (most of the interview was about the Supreme Court), but this professor suggested that the Chernow biography, although excellent in many respects, downplayed the elitism of Hamilton’s views. He (the professor interviewed) seemed to find it slightly ironic that Hamilton has become a hero because of the brilliance of the musical, even though Jefferson’s views were much more egalitarian.
^ I think the play actually downplays Hamilton as a hero. I mean, he was inspirational in that he was an immigrant who came from nothing, but as a person, ehhh. Putting aside the stuff with his wife and son, the show portrays him as someone who was cocky and wouldn’t tolerate not being the best at everything.
The play engages in the anachronism of presenting Hamilton as the champion of financial-center bankers (as if the New York of 1800 were the New York of 2000) vs. Jefferson’s agrarian base. To that extent, it embraces and underlines Hamilton’s elitism.
“even though Jefferson’s views were much more egalitarian” (#187, as an opinion relayed)
What, now? Hamilton was anti-slavery. Jefferson held slaves.
Hopefully someone with more extensive knowledge than me will add to this, but my understanding is that while Hamilton was anti-slavery, he was more pro-property, both in his personal life (he married into a wealthy, slave-holding family) and in terms of writing rules for the country (I am pretty sure Hamilton did not advocate laws that would require freeing slaves). Hamilton advocated greater property requirements for allowing people (white men) the right to vote, while Jefferson favored rules that would allow more people (but still white men) to vote. Hamilton believed that the key to the new America’s prosperity was the very wealthy business class, and sought rules that would advance their interests, while Jefferson advocated for the interests of farmers and small businesses.
At least that’s what I recall from long-ago history classes.
http://m.channel3000.com/news/chicago-zoo-is-wild-about-hamilton-musical/39943344
New animal at Chicago zoo named “Alexander Camelton”.
Briefly on Alexander Hamilton (as relates to #191)
- Hamilton did not believe in the need to write certain protections INTO the consitution because he believed that many of those protections existed NATURALLY and that to reinforce them explicitly may have required the construction of a conflict in principle.
- Hamilton believed in a strong federal government. This is sometimes interpreted as a protection for the wealthy, whereas it can be more simply interpreted as a protection for the nation as a whole.
- Hamilton did not advocate for a pure democracy. However, the current US does not operate on a pure democracy. In this sense, to judge Hamilton harshly with respect to this may also inadvertently be to judge the present day US harshly.
- The implications of "[marrying] into" a family are probably too easy to oversimplify.
Lastly, and not directly related, two of the founding fathers have been credibly argued to have been indispensable to an independent America. One is Washington, the other Hamilton.
LMM and Chernow would be so happy…a bunch of people on a message board discussing the views of the founding fathers!
As far as specifying race in casting, it could be done. For example, the Gershwin estate specifies that when Porgy and Bess is performed in North America the cast has to be black. I don’t think LMM will do this, especially for the high school market since many schools will not have that type of diversity in their theater programs.
On a lighter note…my apologies if someone else has already posted this, but a Chicago zoo named a new baby camel “Alexander Camelton.” I love it!
http://m.channel3000.com/news/chicago-zoo-is-wild-about-hamilton-musical/39943344
That is the type of situation that I mentioned in a previous post, and an entirely different situation than the story in Hamilton. Race is integral to Porgy and Bess, it is not integral to Hamilton. The stipulation by the Gershwin estate is probably the primary factor in P & B almost never being produced, which is unfortunate.
@jonri I beat you to it (#192)!
Tickets for the Chicago production go on sale on 6/21 at 10 am Central. Wonder how many are really left.