<p>YES! lergnom, that’s always running through the back of my mind. Then I get back to eating a few thousand calories worth of latkes. </p>
<p>Chanukah is a minor holiday for us. After all of the prep for the high holidays and Sukkot, I’m more than happy to kick back and not stress about any holidays until Passover. However, this year my mother is insisting that we “celebrate” the first “night” of Chanukah after Thanksgiving, because she loves seeing the children open their presents and most of the grandkids won’t be in town for the holiday itself. :rolleyes: I don’t have it in me to deny an 80-something woman that bit of naches.</p>
<p>“I love having to explain to the people in my office that Jewish holidays don’t fall on recognizable “dates” on the calendar, because the Jewish calendar is so different.”</p>
<p>Yes, my boss just asked me when it starts this year, and I had to look it up on the web. Then the “it actually starts the sunset before” conversation took place, which we’ve had each year for the last 6.</p>
The story that my rabbi has told is that Chanukah is 8 days because it’s actually a delayed celebration of Sukkot.</p>
<p>Also, note that Pesach was not always 8 days; the Torah indicates that it’s 7. Its beginning was determined by the position of the stars in the skay at a particular place and the sighting of these stars was then communicated to outlying areas. But because of the Diaspora, Jews who were widely dispersed couldn’t receive that communication in a timely manner, and so the rabbis decided that the holiday should be celebrated for 8 days to make sure that they didn’t celebrate on the wrong day. (That’s the same for Sukkot as well.) In Israel, Pesach and Sukkot are only 7 days; in the US, Reform Jews also celebrate only for 7 days.</p>
<p>Yes as to timing, to be clear, the holiday starts on 25 Kislev so it starts on the evening of 24 Kislev! </p>
<p>The reason goes all the way to the beginning: first there was darkness and God said let there be light and then it says the evening and the morning were the first day. So a day starts the night before the light.</p>
<p>But of course, this start story is actually newer than the creation story - as generally believed by the people who study this stuff - that describes the water flowing out into the world (and which eventually leads to the location of the stone, of the literal foundation of the world in Jerusalem). They seem to have backed up in time from the watering of the earth to the making of the day and the shaping of the void. Sort of like back-dating the day to the night before.</p>
<p>Chedva, yes of course. And US Jews among others often do two seders because of uncertainty in the old days about when Pesach started, given it requires a moon sighting in Israel. But it still goes a Sabbath, though the meaning is different than for a newborn. As you probably know, there’s a ton of discussion about why this number of days here versus there. The circumcision count is pretty easy to understand. The 7 day cycle seems to be more as an indicator of continuation: we figured out the Sabbath exists from observation - how else? - and made the association that we and work animals need to rest with what God must have done and so when we celebrate a 7 day holiday we reenact the original creation and Sabbath and all that stuff so it continues week to week to week. And so Sabbath has kept the Jews, both because of the conception and the observation. </p>
<p>I’ve heard all sorts of stories about why hanukah is what it is, including the number of days needed to clean the Temple (which makes sense in a rededication holiday). One of the great things about Judaism is the creative freedom to interpret.</p>
Wow, Worrywart, no need to be snotty. You asked if you were the only one who was into Chanukah decorating and complained about the dearth of nice decor items, and I gave an answer with an explanation. This isn’t a private chat–lots of people, including non-Jews, will read a thread entitled “Happy Chanukah” and some discussion of why Jews don’t typically festoon their homes at this time of year is quite appropriate. No one is questioning your piety or religious background, really. Best wishes for a happy holiday for you and your family.</p>
<p>Kind of. Except that 25 Kislev actually starts, as all dates in the Hebrew calendar do, at sunset, and not at midnight. </p>
<p>That is to say, the first day of Chanukah (if by “day” you mean “period when the sun is up”) will be on Sunday, Dec. 9, 2012, while the first night of Chanukah, when we will light the first candle, will be on Saturday, Dec. 8. But both Chanukah and 25 Kislev will begin at sundown on Saturday, Dec. 8–when Shabbat will end.</p>
<p>Yes, Sikorsky, I got that wrong. I knew it and blew it. I even looked it up and blew it because I saw from the shabbat calendar that it’s 24 Kislev and shabbat definitely ends on Saturday. Thanks.</p>
<p>If not for this thread, I might have missed the holiday myself.</p>
<p>Next year, could someone remind me about Chanukah sometime just after Halloween. I will never remember it…starting way too early. Even Nordstom won’t have the decorations out by then:)</p>
<p>Not being Jewish, I might not understand all the various bells and whistles of this celebration of your faith. This should not stop me, however, from participating from the outside and wish all my Jewish friends a very happy Chanukah. </p>
<p>^^How nice, Xiggi, thanks! We don’t always understand the nuances of our holidays either! but we try!!</p>
<p>Happy Holidays to you too! I love the Holiday season, but hate when the stores display Christmas & Chanukah items starting in September, really. I watched carefully all the ads on tv in Oct. and they began in full earnest the day after Halloween. It’s just too soon!</p>
<p>Again, as others have said, Chanukah was not and is not a major holiday, but it has become that way because of it’s December celebration. I believe it was never meant to exchange presents…it is fun, though to bring out the menorahs each year…we light several and it’s beautiful to see all the lights glowing at once…</p>
<p>We always taught our kids the difference between Chanukah and Christmas, and not to feel bad about our holiday not being as glitzy and commercialized as Christmas. That’s how I was raised. I could appreciate others’ Christmas decorations and gifts without feeling like I was being cheated out of something. </p>
<p>OTOH, DH’s parents always gave him and his siblings a present on Christmas when they were young so they wouldn’t feel bad. My in-laws were very surprised when we told them that we didn’t give gifts to our kids on Christmas and that our kids understood why they didn’t get them.</p>
<p>AFAIK, the gift tradition on hanukah comes from guys like Maimonides saying that we as a people need to entice children to learn with the connection to the holiday coming from the “rededication” part. It’s an interesting take because it takes the more literal truth that the war was fundamentalists versus assimilated and pulls the culture part of the assimilated out and grafts that to the fundamentalist revival part. The hanukah gelt and the dreidel can be connected to this educational incentive thing too. (I’ve never bought the idea that the dreidel was used to disguise torah study; it’s obviously a gambling game that can be used to teach arithmetic.)</p>
<p>The other tradition deal is the same kind of metaphor. We eat potato pancakes fried in oil because of the story of the oil lasting and the rather literal connection that makes. In Israel, the usual treat is jelly doughnuts - sufganiyot - also a fried thing in oil. I suppose we could eat french fries. I personally would prefer an arancini.</p>
<p>I think a jelly doughnut party would be more fun than a potato pancake party.</p>
<p>I go with anything fried in oil. One of these years I will try deep fried snickers bars for Chanukah. :)</p>
<p>Heard of a Jewish wedding many years ago where they served both pastrami/corned beef/sliced turkey/etc and Indian food. Theme of Old Deli/New Delhi. <rimshot></rimshot></p>
<p>It appears folks are in a rush to fry. Not me. I’m sticking with the virtual rugelach for now. And, yeah, I’ll pass on the deep fried snickers bars…</p>
<p>This is going to be a bad Chanukah season…my sons have informed me that they want to try several latke recipes…which means I will have to do each recipe justice.</p>
<p>My boys said they are thinking of having a latke cook-off competition/Chanukah party after finals before everyone leaves to go home for break.</p>
<p>And they want to know if they will still get 8 presents this year, even though they won’t be home all 8 days. (yes, they will. And they would be very disappointed if one gift was not a goofy toothbrush, and another gift was not some goofy socks or boxers–they get those every year. They wouldn’t care if I gave them a girl’s hair bow to open, as long as they had something to open. Their list of Chanukah wishes this year includes Legos and PLaydough and a Color By Number set, as well as a couple of real gifts–I can’t believe my twentysomethings still want the toys they always wanted when they were little).</p>
<p>I am so looking forward to Chanukah next year, when I can buy the baby its first Chanukah gifts.</p>
</p>
but we try!!</p>
I watched carefully all the ads on tv in Oct. and they began in full earnest the day after Halloween. It’s just too soon!</p>