Harry Potter discussion--SPOILERS likely

Parent Cafe
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Neville pulled it from the Sorting Hat – just as Harry did at the end of Chamber of Secrets (“only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat”) In the part of the book where Dumbledore’s will is read, the reason given that the sword is not delivered to Harry is that it doesn’t belong to him, it belongs to Gryffindor & reverts back to Gryffindor no matter who has possessed it. There’s also some discussion later on about conflicts between wizard and goblin culture about notions of ownership & transfer of items. </p>

<p>So basically, I think that sword will appear to a true Gryffindor, when needed, via the auspices of the sorting hat – reinforcing the notion among goblins that wizards can’t be trusted, when the goblin discovers his sword has magically disappeared. The actual transportation of the sword is based on the same underlying magical rules of physics as disasperation.</p>

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There’s some discussion in Order of the Phoenix about the degree of intermarriage among the relatively small number of wizards as pretty much insuring that all wizards are related somehow to others – that was in the context of the Sirius Black family tree.</p>

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<p>By the way, am i the only one that didn’t pick this up but was Harry Potter trying to save the life of Lord voldemort. In the earliest chapters Hermoine talks about the Horcrux books she nicked from Dumbledore’s study. She says a soul can be re-attached if the person who split the soul feels genuine remorse. After that, in the final scene, Harry asks Lord voldemort try to feel remorse to save himself. I didn’t make this connection on the first read.</p>

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<p>I think the connection was there, but I think Harry knows Voldemort is not capable of remorse- so what he is really doing is forcing to Voldemort to clearly renounce/reject remorse – because he knows that without remorse, Voldemort cannot survive the loss of his horcruxes. At that point it is obvious that Voldemort can’t kill Harry with the Elder wand – or else Harry would already be dead after the forest encounter.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the reminder of the sword and Sorting Hat.</p>

<p>JK set it up for next series, on the children of these wizards. (like all those Star War series)</p>

<p>With the death of Bella, does that free Neville’s parents from their curse?</p>

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<p>With regards to Neville’s parents, they were tortured so much they became insane. So, they would remain insane after Bellatrix’s death, unfortunately.</p>

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I think that was supposed to be Voldemort.</p>

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<p>My Harry Potter genius friend (she knew there would be a Horcrux in the Room of Requirement near where Harry had hidden the book) said that “the baby was the bit of soul in harry. when it was crying it was kind of symbolism of the remorse voldy should have felt and how if he felt remorse he would have been reborn. he would suffer, but would be reborn. it was the horcrux bit of soul because dumbledore was just like look there is nothing else we can do. you are your own person now.”</p>

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<p>I agree about the “baby”, ie, it is the part of V’s soul that was “cut out” of Harry when V killed him. I figure that white King’s Cross station is something like limbo and Harry gets the choice to remain dead and cross over or return to the living, but then why does he come back actually alive and not as a ghost? Or is it more like a death only of the V soul and a sort of operating table near death experience for Harry.</p>

<p>Somebody said that Marvolo specifically cited his relation to the Peverells as proof of his lineage to Salazar Slytherin, so it seems to me Harry is therefore descended from Slytherin. Yes, he’s related to V, and is the Heir of Slytherin, in a sense, when he kills (or defeats) V. Once again, the lesson is you choose your destiny. Genetics is not necessarily fate.</p>

<p>Alan Rickman and Emma Thompson in “Love Actually”.</p>

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<p>Regarding the remorse decision: I agree that Harry was giving V one last chance to accept or reject evil. As Dumbledore said in one of the earliest books (the first?), “it’s not your abilities, it’s your choices”. This is reinforced by the epilogue. I’m beginning to think the major purpose of the epilogue is not to see what the characters are doing as adults, but to repeat the first book’s comments about choices, in the scene between Harry and his son. As Albus gave this advice to Harry, so Harry passes it on to his own Albus, that he himself will determine whether to be Gryffindor or Slytherin. </p>

<p>mercymom, I don’t think King’s Cross is limbo, since Harry is not dead. He is at that stage of injury where he could give up and let himself die (i.e., get on the train), or fight and stay alive. Again, choices.</p>

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<p>hayden, I think you’re right, King’s Cross is the “operating-table-near-death-experience” option where Harry’s will determines whether he lives or dies. They say those near death experiences do sometimes occur (out of body experience, whatever). </p>

<p>And I agree with the idea that Harry’s asking/telling V to have some remorse is Harry, good soul that he is, trying to save that “baby” soul. Harry’s great strength is that he tries to be kind to everyone, even to Malfoy whom he saved from the fire. I think he always does it selflessly too. I don’t think he’s ever thought in terms of what he himself might gain. In the kids CC cafe, one of the posters notes that in the end, Harry doesn’t even really “kill” V, he just send out an expelliarmus and it is actually V’s AK curse backfiring on V that kills him.</p>

<p>Are you saying that the epilogue is highlighting that the main characters chose to have families, and that is more impt than what they are doing career wise? Or just the more fundamental choosing to be good or bad? Interestingly, it is Neville, who started out with the least amount of natural talent, who’s wound up being the professor. I always thought Hermione would be teaching something and that Harry would be the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher. Who knows more about it than him at this point?</p>

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<p>Hey, Yemaya. Good to see you turn up here.</p>

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<p>I agree that, in JK’s terms, career is not as important as family.</p>

<p>Overall, I really loved the book. I do like continuity and things to make sense, but I have a feeling that just because an explanation isn’t immediately apparent doesn’t mean there isn’t one (I think people have explained the sword well.)</p>

<p>But more important to me is characters and character–how people interact and the choices they make, and to me, that was the strength of the book. I think the wandering in the woods part was important for that, and as someone said above, it kind of takes the place of a Hogswarts year–they even mark Christmas, Easter, etc. I confess i don’t miss Quidditch.</p>

<p>All in all, i’ll vote for it as my favorite one.</p>

<p>(A couple weeks ago, I heard an intended “spoiler” that Hermione would die, and I’m just so relieved that it was false. The scene early on where she says she’s enchanted her parents so the don’t know they have a daughter was one of the first wrenching scenes, to me.</p>

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<p>Yeah, when I read about Hermione doing that to her parents’ memory I felt a sickening feeling that maybe that spoiler about her dying was really true. I guess that’s when I really braced myself for some favorites to go.</p>

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<p>mercymom, the student’s observation is a great one, so thanks for sharing that.</p>

<p>I guess my point about the epilogue is that we were looking for closure on the kids’ lives, but that’s not really what we got (what is Harry doing? What happened to Luna? etc.). I think JKR wanted to end with what is important to her: family, friends, important truths. So she doesn’t get into career choices, but shows the characters surrounded by family love. And she ends with her most important single theme: free will. [Garland, we just cross posted, so I agree with you.]</p>

<p>It’s ironic that many of my religious faith (Protestant) want to ban HP books because of the magic. And yet the overarching themes of Rowling’s books are the biblical themes of free will, evil vs good, loving your brother as yourself, and mercy. Her views of deatheaters vs the Order of the Phoenix is very much like some views (like mine!) of heaven vs hell, in that mercy and love are available to all, and those in hell are not there because they were condemned by God but rather are those whose own choices in life lead them there.</p>

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<p>Okay, who loved the fact that Neville’s Grandmother was so proud of him for being a fighter afterall? I loved that part! :)</p>

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<p>I completely enjoyed the book…even the slightly tedious part in the middle. As someone already said, we are made to feel what Harry feels: not a little frustrated and somewhat bored! I am smaltzy at heart, so I loved the ending and the epilogue and seeing that each of the primary characters was able to live out their life surrounded by those they loved. </p>

<p>And I now have a new favorite expression: “Nuttier than squirrel poo”!</p>

<p>:)</p>

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<p>Quopoe,
I did love Neville’s Gran and her immense pride and side-by-side stance in the fight…for his “passion” for herbology…having lots of plants for “grenades” for his classmates…don’t try to be Harry, Neville, just be yourself… that was a sweet gift to all her readers…</p>

<p>As far as the epilogue goes…here is my prediction for its purpose…
First, she needed to nail down the future of her characters along a storyline she would set in place…harry w/ginny, ron with hermoine, kids etc… her younger readers would value that chapter because of all the “happy endings” it contained. </p>

<p>Second, I think it sets up a new series…yes we have a new orphan, Teddy, who has a werewolf for a dad…and an animagus for a mom… so is there anyone else who sees another series, set in the magical world, but centered around the characters/animals in the margins of this series? Hagrid as the caretaker of the magical creatures… the centaurs… the spiders… the owls… every patronus is an animal… JK has a framework for this next series within the magical world…but she can also take it places that Harry, Ron and Hermoine did not ever go… I ran this idea by a friend and a spouse and got little feedback…I suspect they were still digesting the Hallows… but, perhaps there will be one or two here on CC that might get my drift??</p>

<p>Not sure if this is necessary for everyone…but, the premise was that LV wanted 7 horcruxes as 7 was a magical number…so we have 1)the diary, 2)the locket, 3)the ring, 4)the cup, 5)the tiara, 6)the snake, and finally 7) Harry … at the end, with all 7 horcruxes destroyed…when Harry returned from Kings Crossing, it was finally just Harry vs LV at the end…and as someone else above said, all Harry did was repel LV’s curse and LV’s own curse came back and killed him, leaving Harry the victor. </p>

<p>At the end of the day, JK wanted to feature a character (Harry) who had challenges but never made an irreversible or final choice for bad/evil over good. </p>

<p>I appreciate the other poster who mentioned Hermoine’s research earlier in the book about horcruxes and how remorse could help reunite a body with their soul…I had not remembered this factoid… reminds me a bit of the college app process… and how some on CC are so sought after for advice… the Aurors of the College App process, yes?</p>

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<p>churchmusic mom–i totaly agree</p>

<p>everybody on CC is saying that the epilogue was too happy JK knew what she was doing people wanted Harry to die. To m e, that would be cliche. The epilogue was a closing to a decade of absolutely aamazing literature</p>

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<p>I think one reason she catapulted them all into peaceful adulthood was to make it hard for her publisher to hire a ghost to do a “further adventures of” those characters after she dies. </p>

<p>(Another famous British writer did something like this, but I don’t want to be too explicit just in case someone doesn’t know the story.) </p>

<p>JK even hinted that Harry probably didn’t become an Auror when she had him tell Dumbledore’s portrait that he plans to put the Elder Wand back, and if he dies peacefully, no one will master it again.</p>

<p>What I wanna know is, what happened to the house elves after the battle?</p>