@ItsJustSchool I would still think that colleges would require you convert it to “standard” GPA ratings. And it would be helpful to know SAT scores and such because the discussion is pointless if he has no hope of going somewhere like Harvard. Just like 94% of the kids who apply there.
It really depends what “second tier” means here. Typically, attending a university where one’s SAT score is +250 or +300 above the average is not a good idea. So, if the choice really is a mediocre directional and a top 25, AND the parents can pay, that’s an investment that’s worth making in my opinion.
As for grad school: any PHD program will be funded.
Med school, law school… it depends what the college is.
I agree that the student should find 2 safeties they like before proceeding with ivy plans.
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Med school, law school… it depends what the college is.
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I wouldn’t say that. Few fully or mostly fund the student. Most students who don’t have parents paying are borrowing large amounts.
I would suggest investigating what opportunities exist at the lower ranked school that support a strong student to thrive in their chosen interests. Our ds considered 2 schools that offered him full-ride merit money; a third which offered full-tuition, he completely eliminated from his list.
His decisions were based on tangible differences in support offered for helping him achieve his personal goals. The eliminated school mentioned a token student who had achieved high levels of success and shared his profile. When ds inquired where other recent dept undergrads had gone to grad school, the undergrad advisor and the dean (both present at the meeting) could not answer the question. When he asked about undergrad research, the undergrad advisor stated that all of the professors were busy and most had no time to take on an undergrad student. The attitude in that meeting was very dismissive of Ds’s goals and already existing achievements. That interview told ds exactly what he needed to know. It did not matter that the school was ranked higher than the other 2 schools. All that mattered was that that dept was not offering him what he wanted and needed. It was obviously not a dept focused on its undergrads. They didn’t seem to know their undergrads (and it was a small dept!) nor did they seem to offer the support to top grad schools. And they were very dismissive toward undergrad research (his personal #1 criteria.)
He ended up choosing his school bc of an experience similar to the one posted in this thread:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-alabama/1789529-a-visit-to-the-university-of-alabama-cbh-and-honors-college.html#latest
He was invited to join research as a freshman. He has a research fellowship this summer. CBH exists to support high achieving students. Those supports are real and the outcomes tangible. The students involved do not feel like they “settled” for something less. They are valued for the talents they possess and are encouraged to high levels of achievement. Scrolling through this list gives an idea of just some of the undergrad research these kids are participating in https://live.cbhp.ua.edu/schedule.php
There isn’t a single answer. I believe that the one school I described would have been an incredibly poor decision. UA, otoh, has offered him exactly what he hoped to find in an undergrad program. He has not been disappointed!
I meant that for a student who wants to get a PHD investing in a top college (especially a LAC) makes sense, but if the realisticr goal is med school or law school then pro/cons need to be weighteds carefully depending on the school. Anything in Fiske, insider’s, etc, would be fine IMHO, but too great a difference between op and most students and without a numerical mass of at least 100 honors kid per graduating class would likely be suboptimal if not detrimental.
How would one reconcile these two statements? Safeties usually are populated with students whose average pre-admission qualifications are significantly lower than those of the student in question. But the first statement implies that it is not a good idea to attend such a school – so that goes against some of the necessary qualities of a safety, which are that it must be suitable for the student and that the student is willing to attend.
I don’t see why not. There are PLENTY of universities that have 1250-1300 average scores (ie., -150 for an Ivy applicant) and would be safeties to Ivy-level applicants, and among those certainly they can choose some with the best fit and cost.
response to biochemgirl67. You seem very curious how someone can have an unweighted GPA of 4.2. During my son’s freshman year there was a way to get a 5.0. The top student of a class could get an H which would give you a 5.0. This option was only available in certain core courses. After that an A plus equals a 4.3 and an A equals 4.0. The school got rid of the H or 5.0 scale after his freshman year. Now he can still get a 4.3 for an A plus. So this is how my son has an unweighted 4.2 GPA. The school does not inflate GPA for honors or AP classes.
I think they wondered how a 4.2 could be a perfect unweighted GPA, now how you could get one. But, perhaps this OP school gives 4.2 for A+, not 4.3, so it could happen I suppose. I’m not sure how any kid would get all A+ though. That kid might want to consider a more challenging school to hold their interest and development!
On the original question: I don’t think it matters if real or hypothetical. It’s a good and often discussed Q.
To me, there are 2 important unknowns: as folks have pointed out, what = lower tier here? And can the family afford Harvard, or will they finance it with loans?
Never worth it regardless of other school:
-If financing 100% with loans: To me, the answer is not worth it no matter what. $200k+ in loans is just ridiculous to expect anyone to pay back between the ages of 22 and 32.
-If Med school on horizon, H not worth it. Focus on grades and save your $.
-If the “lower” school is just “inches” down the continuum.
Maybe worth it:
If lower means Evergreen State, Alabama, or BGSU, or ASU, or Temple, or FSU, etc…then it may be worth it if it can be afforded without too much in loans and doesn’t cause the family too much hardship. It’s a once in a lifetime chance. But it’s not the end all be all. If it is financially painful to the family or the future of the student, any of those “lower tier” will give you a fine education for free! Seriously. Many of us can tell you that story where the student ended up very happy, successful, and/or wealthy. It has happened to many of us or our kids. (And don’t pound me for choosing these. I stuck in the one I went to as well!!!)
Always worth it:
If you can comfortably afford H, and you love it more than the other school, and you can afford grad school too, you should do it. YOLO.
Not necessarily.
Some schools are prestigious largely due to their excellent research output, which may or may not translate to consistently high-quality undergraduate instruction, mentoring, and research opportunities.
In contrast, some small colleges that are not very well known (or prestigious, except among the relative few who know them) do offer consistently smaller classes and good instruction by experienced professors (never grad students and rarely adjuncts).
A small, relatively obscure but high-quality LAC such as Lawrence University or Rhodes may not give your kid a full ride … but it may offer enough merit money to bring the net cost down to in-state public university levels. For a Harvard-competitive upper income (> $200K/y) student, that’s probably the kind of school I’d consider “second tier” (just in terms of selectivity and net cost). For a full ride, you’re more likely to be looking at large directional/regional state schools located in places considered (rightly or wrongly) less desirable.
http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/rhodes-college-memphis/1072290-rhodes-college-for-premed.html
@MYOS1634, there aren’t many schools with an average M+CR SAT of 1250-1300 that offer easy-to-get full-tuition scholarships.
LACs/universities with average scores in the ~1250-1300 range include:
Bucknell
Gettysburg
Lafayette
Bard
Dickinson
Sewanee
Boston U
Wisconsin
Florida
Texas
Colorado Mines
UCSB
Some of these places do offer merit scholarships.
Gettysburg for example gives them to 36% of undergrads without need, according to Kiplinger’s. Dunno how many of them are full-tuition (or more). The average amount at Gettysburg is under $14K.
As many have commented, it doesn’t make sense to be discussing this hypothetical situation, but I will chime in anyway.
I can’t imagine paying full price at an Ivy when I could get a free education at a different well-respected, reputable school. The full price tag of an Ivy school is extremely expensive. If I were you, I’d save the money for future schooling, especially if you want to go to medical school. I have never understood the hang-up people have for Ivies anyway. Are they great schools? Of course. Are they the only great schools? Definitely not.
If medical school is on the horizon then I would look at the least expensive way to do undergrad while still receiving a great education.
There is maybe one or two schools at the most where we’d be willing to pay full freight. And even then it would not be without a great deal of research and consideration.
Nowheresville A&M and Moo Tech are jealous.