<p>True. Harvards new sports centre is supposed to be so oppulent, that students and staff have actually complained about it being over the top! With log fires and ridiculous spacious changing rooms.</p>
<p>But Oxford facilities are not exactly bad though! It has 30 Boathouses, its own theatres including the Burton taylor, Its own parks, countless sporting facilities including Polo, rugby, football pitches and stadiums. some of the original Real tennis courts. Its own golf course, its own lawn tennis clubs. The bodlean library (whose collection is stored under the streets of Oxford! With arguably the worlds greatest collection), then the individual college libraries and other huge holding libraries (all have 24hr access), around 30 chapels, including the masterpieces at Christchurch, Magdalen, Merton and New matched only by the Kings college chapel. Its own collection of Museums.The largest chemistry department in the western world (just built new $110m centre). A world famous ancient art collection. The new $78m spacious Said Business school.
Dear and other animal parks, The famous botanic gardens.
The list goes on…</p>
<p>I dont know about you, but thats more than enough for me!</p>
<p>Also i forgot, the 36 college bars, with cheap alcohol. And a vast array of student clubs and societies, with many like the famous conservative societys having their own buildings. Spacious Individual rooms (no sharing nonsense like at Harvard). The romance of Punting down the ISIS on a summers evening…Ahhhh i can’t wait!</p>
<p>come to think of it, why would i want to go to Harvard!</p>
<p>"On whether the American Liberal arts education is superior, i would simply say that Oxbridge provides more depth and rigour "
The IBAC is a bore, a joke. They talk about “depth” Brits would not know depth if they fell into it. Fact is they dont have the freedom in their programs or culture to THINK or INVENT or CREATE. The American spirit is what makes our Universities exquisite. Cobwebs, crests and pomp bore me to death. I would rather grab a redbull at MIT PRINCETON HARVARD or YALE with a student or faculty member on the go than ROT in a room with a burnt out docent.
As for the WORLD LIST- I’d like to see Princeton top Stanford. Good Lord what a flaw- Stanford second???</p>
<p>I dont want to go to Havard anymore Coureur, i was just seduced by its wealth and No1 spot. however what i failed to realise is that this for an undergraduate is simply meaningless. Oxford provides as much to its undergraduates, if not more.</p>
<p>‘hey talk about “depth” Brits would not know depth if they fell into it’</p>
<p>You make this statement with absolutely no evidence, You merely have to compare the syllabai of the Oxford Courses with the harvard ones to see your statement is an unfounded load of sh**. the workload is legendary at Oxbridge, and the speed at which you progress into advanced material simply out paces Harvard. (maybe not MIT so much)</p>
<p>‘Fact is they dont have the freedom in their programs or culture to THINK or INVENT or CREATE’</p>
<p>How pretentious is that statement! I think you have been reading the H prospectus too much. Anyway how is a second year undergraduate supposed to invent or create within the field of theoretical physics, for christs sake! It takes until masters level until you have the tools and understanding to do this.</p>
<p>‘I would rather grab a redbull at MIT PRINCETON HARVARD or YALE with a student or faculty member on the go than ROT in a room with a burnt out docent.’</p>
<p>In Britain and Europe for that matter we have got class, breeding and sophistication, something brash Americans like yourself will never understand. Not that Oxford is as cliched as you say.
Oxford at least has romance about it, Where is the romance in Harvard needing its own police force?</p>
<p>Anyway all you would be having is a Redbull because your not even allowed to drink alcohol for the first three years! How sad is that being treated like a little child. Social life at oxford is a million times more exciting.</p>
<p>Likw everything in Oxford, it varies by course. Most science subjects have a compulsary research project, ranging from one year in length (Biochemistry, Engineering, Materials, Chemistry as well I think) to just one month (Physics). Arts subjects are more variable - History and English have a compulsary thesis, which has to be original research (usually taking up about 10 weeks). So far as I’m aware, relatively few PPE undergraduates carry out research (though that may be because so few go on to academia, and nothing to do with the course). I’m not sure about Classics or Modern Languages.</p>
<p>Bluefuture, most of your statements are wrong and based on a naive and misguided view of America’s educational system. Were you accepted at any of Americas premier academic institutions? I would like to address only one point that you mentioned. You say “Social life at oxford is a million times more exciting” because students at Oxford are able to drink alcohol at the age of 18 (under British law). Well, first, you are insinuating that a social life only exists in the presence of alcohol. That is a pretty ignorant assumption. Second, you obviously know nothing about American college life if you would blindly assume that American college students don’t drink alcohol. I’d venture to say they consume much more alcohol than Oxford students.</p>
<p>The main reason I decided to stay at American universities, was that I really couldn’t get behind the Oxbridge model of undergraduate education. Not to say that it is bad, but for someone like me who wanted (and still needs) some level of academic freedom in college the way that Oxbridge forces you to specialize before you even arrive on campus was not appealing to me, one of my British friends at college who is now a Near Eastern Civilizations major once told me, “If I hadn’t come here, I probably would have been sitting math and Cambridge and I would have been miserable.” Also, I like the idea of having 4 years of college instead of 3. I wasn’t ready at 18 to declare my course of study for the next 3 years and I am glad that I didn’t. I don’t think that the top American universities and colleges are “better” than Oxbridge, they are simply different and they work better for me.</p>
<p>‘don’t think that the top American universities and colleges are “better” than Oxbridge, they are simply different and they work better for me’.</p>
<p>Ah… finally the voice of reason. This is exactly what i have been trying to say.</p>
<p>‘Bluefuture, most of your statements are wrong and based on a naive and misguided view of America’s educational system’</p>
<p>like what for example (the social life point, was hardly the most in need of addressing)? Oh no, no I forgot most people on this forum dont use evidence to suport their conclusions, just unbridaled patriotism for colleges they have not even got into yet.</p>
<p>I may be wrong about the social life (I have been told about this lack by a few people at Harvard who i have met). But I am not wrong about the academic depth. The evidence for this is clear. Infact this is one of the key reasons i did not apply for undergraduate studies in the states. The fourth year Princeton exchange is more suited to my needs.</p>
<p>“Social life at oxford is a million times more exciting” , This was also based on the fact Oxford has a collegiate system, and thus means you dont feel dwarfed by the size of the uni.</p>
<p>Great. You are already in at one of the top universities in the world – one that suits you and what you are looking for. What could be better? So there is no need to keep arguing. This thread can be allowed to die.</p>
<p>'Great. You are already in at one of the top universities in the world – one that suits you and what you are looking for. What could be better? So there is no need to keep arguing. This thread can be allowed to die.,</p>
<p>couldnt have said it better.</p>
<p>‘Isnt Oxford more prestigious than Harvard overall?’</p>
<p>My own feelngs is that Oxford is undoubtedly the the most famous university in the world. This is due to it being the first English speaking university, having for centuries educated, the popular icons of the western world and a huge array of politicians, including an American President (the best in the last 50 years i might add) and a few senators and congresswomen. The Oxford English dictionary has also been pivotal, as well as the architecture, and its widespread use in literature and movies.</p>
<p>Cambridge is less famous internationally simply due to its graduates being slightly less well known among the general population (generally scientists are compared to politicians or literary figures, although not deservingly so.). </p>
<p>Both, Oxford and Cambridge have the deserved reputation and 1700 hundred years of experience between them in providing the most demanding, and rigorous standards at undergraduate level. They are in many ways the gold standard, and will always be the institutions that other educational systems are compared to.</p>
<p>Harvard has only become the international power it is in the last 100 years or so, so in many ways is still the new kid on the block.</p>
<p>Personally i see do see H as being more progressive in its educational system. A simple analogy between them is who are the better actors traditional British stage actors like Lawrence olivier, or new wave method actors like Marlon Brando?</p>
<p>They both are equally the most respected in what they do,</p>
<p>Hmm…all I know is, as far as sciences/math go, the UK’s A-level is not that hard as compared to the version given in Hong Kong. I am also not convinced they have the best math in the world, unless they get a lot of talents from overseas because their high schoolers haven’t done all that well in international competitions like IMOs and IPhO…etc.</p>
<p>I will be brief. Oxbridge was a disappointment to many of my friends and family who attended. No depth-none- despite what you say and what has been said by others. Arrogant unapproachable profs- perhaps they just dont like “those Americans”. Intense anti american attitude fired off regularly - at every opportunity- who wants to be mocked constantly for being " so American"…Apparently there is such a pathetic rivalry on the part of the Brits-that from day one everyone I know experienced the same thing overseas… it was noted to them over and over how " American " and therefore how " unsuitable " they were- or how poorly educated on the other side of the “pond” these Americans were! EVERYONE reported that the classes were not very impressive. The British system of grading was arbitrary and Americans were penalized in order to show how inferior they were at every turn with no explanation except that " you Americans cant cut it here". It is important to note the people I am referring to were at the top of their classes at St Pauls and Exeter- really brilliant, accomplished kids!
As for drinking- the culture is an alcoholic culture. Pubs are a way of life which is fine if this is what you aspire to.
Sorry bluefuture -its true. Now the architecture makes for a beautiful museum like a fairy tale… just beautiful. However my choice is to learn in an OPEN culture- I intend to drink if I want to- not because I must in order to survive in the college culture- All of my experiences point to this- enjoy the environment of learning that makes you feel comfortable but dont BS this board. The academic model of Britain has been dead for years. The competition to get in is about getting a single score on an exam- though I regularly hear Brits say “those SATS” as if their system is not about testing. I am sure you mean well- but to all of those Americans who wish the British experience do it for a summer- its great to go overseas- but be prepared for a culture shock - and finally this “brash American” BS is a phrase that colors who you are not who we are- save it for the next crop of Americans who want to experience the Hollywood version of the proper English education. Its nothing more than a myth.</p>
<p>At the moment in the UK and pretty much half the world the you Americans are pretty much despised. This is really to do with Bush, corruption, religious neo-conservative politics, world pollution and your corporate invasion of fast food and shopping outlets. I know there are certain elements in Oxbridge that feel this way about Americans, dont let this form a whole impression for you. </p>
<p>Personally I like Americans, and think that among the educated sections of your society, you share the same anguish at your foreign policy as the rest of the world. </p>
<p>There are two types of people on here. The first are those who acknowledge the fact that the Ivy league and Oxbridge are the best in the world (rankings are clear evidence of this, as this post has already established) at providing two distinct types of undergraduate education.
Secondly there are the types who either say Oxbridge is better (nearly all British students), or Ivy league schools are (mainly American) for undergraduates, this is to do with patriotism and differences in culture, distorting peoples judgement. comments like ‘The academic model of Britain has been dead for years’ have no basis in reality, just as similar statements i have heard against the American system dont. I am just sorry Birdloverfla thinks single incidences can reflect the University as a whole and has been offended by the conduct of tutors. I apologise on behalf of xenophobic british people everywhere!</p>
<p>The proper English education is still a reality, and i have never met a single current student (have a few friends there) or graduate who DIDNT say it wasnt the experience of a lifetime, educationally and academically. I know from my 4 days there during the interviews i didnt want to leave!</p>
<p>In terms of an alcohol culture i am sure you have read the Economist article on harvard students having parties and getting completely wasted, all the time. That is what students and young people do everywhere in the world. lighten up.</p>
<p>Studying for 4 APs is like studying for one A level. The average British student takes up 4 A level courses. Its grueling, but the work their ass off for the A.</p>
<p>thanks for the recognition dude! the calculus BC/AB dont even compare to the A-levels in Maths, Further maths,STEP.</p>
<p>The Average Oxford student gets 4.5 A grades, the highest average in UK.</p>
<p>I know a few people who got 5-6As and one who got 7 there!
the current record is 10.5As shared by a girl and a guy called Paul jeffries, him, being the winner of the International math olympiad. they are both currently at Cambridge.</p>
I am also not convinced they have the best math in the world, unless they get a lot of talents from overseas because their high schoolers haven’t done all that well in international competitions like IMOs and IPhO…etc.</p>