<p>Great info guys, thank you!</p>
<p>Dwight, I agree with your comments 100%. One should also consider that although Harvard and other elite colleges that claim to have “need-blind” admissions policies, are not entirely truthful. If two candidates have the same credentials, (no special talent), and one’s parent(s) makes $60,000 a year, and the other $150,000 a year, the one with the higher income will be admitted. Then, there is the matter of privilege involved. Children from higher socioeconomical backgrounds have more access to better college prep high schools, extracurricular activities, tutors, etc. so, when the disadvantaged student is fortunate and “special” enough to become accepted into an elite school like Harvard, they deserve all of the financial help that they can get; they have overcome more adversity and had to achieve more to even get accepted in the first place than the more privileged student.</p>
<p>Helen: your statement is filled with inconsistencies.</p>
<p>"If two candidates have the same credentials, (no special talent), and one’s parent(s) makes $60,000 a year, and the other $150,000 a year, the one with the higher income will be admitted. "</p>
<p>Where do you assume that? You yourself said they are equal in every aspect but assert that the $150K kid gets accepted. That’s without support – frankly an absurd statement when it comes to Harvard. </p>
<p>Then you follow with the statement that the $60K probably overcame more than the $150K student applicant and deserves to be in more. I posit that these two kids would probably both get in and knock out someone who makes +$200K. You think Harvard is blind to your theory of the value of lower socioeconomic kids?</p>
<p>There is actually a lot of information available regarding what I have posted. I caanot post the links here; they will be re moved. I suggest that you Google, “are need blind admissions really need blind”, and/or do other research.</p>
<p>Meant ‘cannot’…</p>
<p>Helen – when you have spent a little more time on College Confidential, you will see some pretty sophisticated discussions of how “need blind” may or may not be as blind as colleges would like us to believe. But no one with any knowledge or experience argues that any college that purports to be need-blind would do what you say: choose a higher-wealth student over an otherwise-identical lower-wealth student because of their relative resources.</p>
<p>Two things make that almost impossible. In the first place, only a relative handful of colleges actually claim both to make need-blind admission decisions (sometimes just for domestic students) and to offer financial aid that meets full need of any student accepted (or at least any domestic student accepted). They derive real prestige from that. When colleges need to depart from that regimen, they are careful to explain publicly what they are doing. (Carleton and Wesleyan, I think, both did that recently.) If they got caught cheating, it would be a devastating embarrassment.</p>
<p>Second, it’s overwhelmingly likely that a college that did what you say would get caught, and quickly. There are actually a lot of people in the room when these decisions get made, and many of them are recent college graduates who do not intend to be permanent admissions professionals. If they thought their departments were defrauding people, lying to others (or even themselves), these non-permanent admissions staff would revolt. The expose would be on WikiLeaks in no time.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, there’s no need for a college like Harvard to do that sort of thing in the first place, because (or so the argument goes) what they do is to use a set of selection criteria – the first of which is that you have to apply to Harvard to have any chance of being accepted – that predictably produces a class that’s weighted towards the more wealthy, even if it’s applied on a completely income-neutral basis. For example, the college may look for x Latin and Greek scholars, and y squash players. Nothing stops low-income kids from studying Latin or playing squash. But it would surprise no one to learn that, proportionately, many more Latin students and squash players come from wealthy families than come from poor ones. If all the college does is accept the five best Latin students and the five best squash players from among its applicants, it will wind up with maybe one low-income kid, two middle-income kids, and seven high-income kids.</p>
<p>If they do it, that’s how they do it. </p>
<p>In the situation you posited – otherwise equal candidates, except for family income – it is almost a dead-solid certainty that the lower-income applicant will get chosen, because he is likely to seem far more unique and special than the higher-income applicant.</p>
<p>[The</a> Three Biggest Lies in College Admission - Forbes](<a href=“http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevecohen/2012/09/29/the-three-biggest-lies-in-college-admission/]The”>The Three Biggest Lies in College Admission)</p>
<p>This is one perspective.</p>
<p>Did you read the article, Helen? The author refers very generally to some schools which must, because of shrinking endowments, take another look at need blind policies and perhaps become more need aware. Nothing about Harvard and nothing about colleges with large endowments which have and will continue to be need blind. Besides, a simple sanity check says that Harvard has absolutely no reason to violate its own policies for a $55K yearly tuition bill - that’s what most people call “chump change” relative to Harvard’s endowment.</p>
<p>Helen, while that article does apply to some colleges, it does not apply to Harvard, Yale and Princeton – three schools that have the highest endowments of any college in the US. Currently, more than 60% of every incoming class at Harvard is on Financial Aid, including my daughter, who for the record had a 2280 SAT and a 96.8 average. Many applicants from her high school – and from across the country – had BETTER stats and did not apply for FA, as they could have paid the full fare. But Harvard didn’t take them, they took my daughter instead and hundreds of other students like her. I’m sure if Harvard wanted to they could take more full fare paying students than they do, but they don’t.
As a new member to CC, I would suggest that you do more research on the subject before posting further, as you are dead-wrong with regards to Harvard and Financial Aid.</p>
<p>While other schools are decreasing their financial aid due to low endowments, Harvard is increasing the overall amount of aid paid every year – and it has been doing so for the last 5 years! Please read: [Record</a> for financial aid | Harvard Gazette](<a href=“http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/03/record-for-financial-aid/]Record”>Record for financial aid – Harvard Gazette)</p>
<p>The forbes article may hold some sway with other colleges but as Gibby has said, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Amherst and Williams are on a different plane. Their endowments and ridiculously generous FinAid make them the envy of many University presidents’ offices and the goal of many HS applicants.</p>
<p>^^ Actually, Williams has backtracked on their FA over the last three years, and now requires every student to take a loan. MIT did the same. See:
Williams: [Williams</a> College Nixes No-Loan Student-Aid Policy After Endowment Falls - Students - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“Williams College Nixes No-Loan Student-Aid Policy After Endowment Falls”>Williams College Nixes No-Loan Student-Aid Policy After Endowment Falls)
MIT: [MIT</a> moves away from an aid policy in which low-income students don’t need to borrow | Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/08/20/mit-moves-away-aid-policy-which-low-income-students-dont-need-borrow]MIT”>MIT moves away from an aid policy in which low-income students don't need to borrow)</p>
<p>But Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Amherst continue to have the resources to maintain generous 100% need based financial aid without loans. And I don’t think any of them are playing the need-aware game because they don’t have to!</p>
<p>harvard is great</p>
<p>[Financial</a> aid increases by $10M | Harvard Gazette](<a href=“http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2013/03/financial-aid-budget-increases-by-10m/]Financial”>Financial aid increases by $10M – Harvard Gazette)</p>
<p>What about international students? Does Harvard offer the aid for non-US citizens?</p>
<p>^^^ [Questions</a> & Answers](<a href=“http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k51861&pageid=icb.page244009]Questions”>http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k51861&pageid=icb.page244009)</p>
<p>QUESTION: Is there financial aid available for foreign students?</p>
<p>ANSWER: Yes, on exactly the same basis as for American students. Although foreign students are not eligible for any federal funding, the College has its own job and scholarship money available to foreign students.</p>
<p>^yes! Harvard is need blind and meets full need for international applicants as well.</p>
<p>Wow, sounds highly appealing. I wonder if the concept applies to Harvard Law as well.</p>
<p>Harvard Law is a professional school with a much different FinAid philosophy</p>
<p>[HLS</a> Student Financial Services](<a href=“http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/index.html]HLS”>http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/index.html)</p>